New Platinum Strategies

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theoblivinator
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New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:20 pm

Lately I've been re-routing Platinum using Chimchar. I believe Eeckast made a route awhile ago, and I've been referencing that, but I've made a few changes so far that save time. I'd like to share some of my findings and strats with the community to get some feedback on them since I could be overlooking some things. Outside help is always appreciated.

My Chimchar:

I'm using RNG Manipulation for a specific Chimchar with the following stats.

Nature: Lonely
HP: 25
Atk: 31
Def: 28
SAtk: 31
SDef: 23
Spd:31

I chose this Chimchar because I believe a physical based Chimchar/Infernape is the fastest. Infernape learns several great Physical attacks like Flare Blitz and Close Combat. It also has great TM support for physical moves like Shadow Claw, Return, Rock Slide, and Aerial Ace. Maximizing it's Attack stat with a 31 IV to make sure those attacks hit the hardest is my goal with this spread. If you look at the RNG Help Thread I made awhile back, you'll find all the information required to rng manipulate this starter on your own.

Teleport Strats:
Biggest change right now is the inclusion of Abra to the slaves you capture. Abra is caught on Route 203 and has a 15% encounter rate. It sucks, but it isn't the end of the world. Once you encounter an Abra you're pretty much guaranteed to catch it unless it breaks out of all your balls since you can use Taunt to prevent it from teleporting. It is also beneficial that he is caught on Route 203 since the other two slaves that you need can also be encountered here, Bidoof and either Starly or Zubat. You'd be able to catch all other slaves on this route while looking for Abra, since he might not want to appear right away.

Abra's teleport allows you to skip some backtracking. First you can use it after your Oreburgh City shopping trip by heading up to Route 207, using Teleport, and returning back to Jubilife City. Obviously you'll have to enter the Pokecenter in Jubilife and not use Oreburgh's center to heal. This skips a cutscene when your Rival will come up and talk to you before you head back into Oreburgh Cave. It also saves the time it would take to travel back through Oreburgh Cave and Route 203 to reach Jubilife.

The second teleport occurs after you beat the Grunt that is guarding the Valley Windworks. Use teleport after he enters the building and locks you out to return to Floaroma Town without backtracking. Then from there you can head north to the Grunt battle for the Honey. This is also where the third teleport occurs. After you beat the two grunts and obtaining the honey, teleport back to Floaroma Pokecenter, then head east back to the Valley Windworks.

These are the only teleports I have found so far. I think there might be a few more but I'm not sure. I'm going to keep an eye out for some.

Blaze Strats/PP Management:

My route doesn't use any Pokecenters for healing yet. I haven't finished routing the game, but so far up to the first Jupiter battle, I don't have a need to heal at any Pokecenters. I only enter the Jubilife and Floaroma centers to set teleport. This presents some challenges dealing with Chimchar's Ember PP, since it is it's primary way to deal damage early in the run. To remedy this, Blaze is used to help get some OHKOs with Ember. Ideally I get into Blaze range during the fight with Youngster Tristan's Starly. His Quick Attack does 6 HP and Tackle does 4 HP. Since it takes 3 Scratches to faint Starly if you don't get Growled (more commonly you'll need to use 4 Scratches since the Starly does like to use Growl), that gives plenty of chances for it to use Quick Attack and bring me down to 8 HP or less for the upcoming fights. Here is the PP management used for the upcoming battles:

Natalie's Bidoof: 2x Ember
Logan's Burmy: 1x Ember
Christine's Bidoof: 2x Ember
Harrison's Starly: 1x Ember (Blaze damage range) (get a free potion to use before the next Rival battle)
Rival's Starly: 2x Scratch or 1x Scratch, 1x Ember (depends on if you get growled)
Rival's Piplub: 5x Ember (could use Scratch if you haven't got growled at all)
Dallas's Shinx: 1x Ember (Blaze?) not sure if you can OHKO if in Blaze
Sebastian's Machop: 1x Ember (Blaze?) not sure if you can OHKO if in Blaze
Curtis's Starly: 2x Scratch
Curtis's Shinx: 1x Ember (Blaze)
Dianna's Bidoof: 1x Ember (Blaze?) not sure if you can OHKO if in Blaze
Mason's Geodude: 3x Ember
Colin's Geodude: 1x Ember (Blaze damage range)
Colin's Machop: 1x Ember (Blaze damage range) (evolve into Monferno after this fight and rely on Mach Punch to defeat Roark)

I'm not 100% sure on the three OHKO that I mentioned above. After those battles you should have 3 or less Ember PP left. Ember isn't required anymore in my route past Collin (you can use it against Biana's Pachirisu in Eterna Forest if you happen to get into Blaze early during that fight, and you haven't gotten Flame Wheel yet). Instead I teach Return over Scratch and use that alongside Mach Punch for most of my OHKO's or 2HKO's. This prevents trying to manipulate your health into Blaze after Roark, which you would then use for OHKO's on the upcoming grunt battles. Using Return is safer since you wont need to be in Blaze, and faster since you don't need to heal at the centers to restore PP. The first complete heal you get is after the first double battle in Eterna Forest when Cheryl heals you. I use Potions and a Super Potion for healing items instead. It isn't required to buy any Potions from the Sandgem Town mart, but I believe that is the quickest way to get them instead of grabbing them from the overworld. I'm going to look at my potion strategy again once I return to the beginning of the game.

That's about all I have at the moment. Now before someone comes up and says "Piplup has already been proven to be faster", I'm aware of the advantages that it gets. I just believe that a Chimchar run can give Piplup a run for it's money and even potentially be faster with the right optimized route. That is all I'm looking at right now. So if anyone has something to contribute that would be dope. You can also contact me on Skype or twitch, both of which use the same screen name as the one I use on here, theoblivinator.

Thanks for reading! I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with my findings, even if no one else responds. :)

TyrantNeptune
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by TyrantNeptune » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:13 pm

Nice work!

I've also been looking into running different pokémon for platinum, so let me share some of my findings.

I had not thought about defeating the workers in the mine yet, because I assumed it would take too many turns. Instead I fought Kaitlin and Madeline on route 203 which also gave me enough exp. You can one hit all of Kaitlin's pokémon, but she has four of them, so I don't think that's worth it. I'm not really sure if Madeline's Psyduck was a two hit or a three hit, but either way it may be worth considering defeating her instead of Mason.

An alternative way of obtaining Abra is by catching a Machop on route 207 and trading it for the Abra in Oreburgh. Going to route 207 and trading takes time (although you save a turn by not having to use taunt), but Machop has an encounter rate of 45% in the day, and 35% in the moring and night, so you should be getting him a lot more consistent.

That being said, you don't need to go all the way to the valley windworks to open the meadow, you only need to talk to the girl on route 205 in order to open it, so you can just talk to her, go to the meadow then beat the guy guarding valley windworks and enter it immediately.

While I was experimenting with the route myself, I tried running Chimchar/Monferno untill Eterna, then obtaining a Skull Fossil in the underground and beat the rest of the game with Cranidos. However, I found out that having the Skull Fossil appear in the underground was way to random and took to much time.

I'm currently trying to create a chimchar/kadabra route, either by catching a lv 20 Machop in Mt. Coronet (10% encounter rate) and trading that for Abra in Oreburgh or by catching a level 19/20 abra (10%) or a 20/21 kadabra (also 10%) on route 215. Catching the pokemon on route 215 is obviously faster, but the traded abra has set IV's (15/15/15/25/25/20) and I fear the lv 20/21 kadabra's can kill monferno pretty easy.

Kadabra has higher base stats then Infernape and can use the Choice Specs available in Celestic Town, though it's IVs will be lower (it can't be rng manip'd as far as I know) and trading for it (if that's the best way of obtaining it) takes quite some time (and it's name is longer). Also, it learns no moves that hit multiple pokemon in a double battle, so it'll lose some time there as well. The time lost for needing to catch it (or the machop) is compensated by not having to catch Bidoof (you can teach both rock smash and cut to Chimchar).

That's all I have now. I'm looking forward to what other things you'll find.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by MoneyHypeMike » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:10 am

Nice to see people trying to find new strategies!

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Sinstar
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by Sinstar » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:14 am

No love for Piplup any more apparently. r i p BibleThump
Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:46 am

Thanks for the replies everyone, means a lot to know that others are still looking at different strats. I'm really happy about that. :)

Anyways, today I spent a long while routing. I think I have a nice consistent route up to Route 215 (the rain route). Jupiter can be a little bit of a pain with her Skunktank, but overall it's manageable (2HKO with Flame Wheel in Blaze!). The only hiccup is Fantina.

What a bitch.

I hate her Mismagius. My current strats have me using Leer (2x against Duskull, 1 against Haunter, and 1 against Mismagius) as well as an X Speed to outspeed her team and one shot with Flame wheel. The kicker is that even a Blaze Flame Wheel after one Leer against her Mismagius will not OHKO it (brings it down to red HP, Sitrus Berry restores to Yellow). Instead it faints me and I have to use a Revive and a Super Potion while she kills two of my slaves then have Monferno come back out, tank another Psybeam to put him back into Blaze, and then finish her off. If her Haunter or her Mismagius confuses me, it's usually battle over since HP is very tight on that battle. I'm going to look into it again more in the future but I was getting frustrated and wanted to move on.

Rival 3 afterwards isn't that bad. I'm still using Bibarel strats for that against his Prinpulp. Using Return in combination with the Soothe Bell you get from Cheryl is really starting to pay off. I'm getting quite a few OHKOs and 2HKOs using it, that eliminate Super Effect text or even Not Very Effect text (for those times you used to have to use Mach Punch instead).

One thing I was looking at briefly was picking up either Flamethrower or Swords Dance at the Veilstone Game Corner, but then I realized how expensive it would be to straight up buy the coins for the TMs. Flamethrower is really out of the question. Swords Dance is a little more realistic, but you'd have to pick it up on a returning trip instead of the first time you get there since it would cost a whopping 80,000 poke dollars. I'm only around 20k at route 215 with very very very minimalistic buying habits, and even if I sold everything I got I wouldn't have enough. Looks like I'll have to cross that idea off (unless getting the Amulet Coin in Amity Square, setting teleport up in Veilstone, and then coming back after you've battled to get enough money is worth it, that sounds terrible though).

Well those are my thoughts. I'm going to keep moving forward with the game!

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:44 am

Another status update. Had to take a week break from this since I went traveling for work! WOOO!

Anyways came back and started hacking away at my new route again. Just a general question, how long does it take others to route the game themselves? I can rarely go for more than a two or three hour session before I get burnt out and want to move on to something else. Do others have the mental willpower to just sit down and route the game in like two or three days straight? Just curious honestly.

Alright so Route 215 is hell. Absolute hell. With the Rain ruining your Flame Wheel power, and having the two Ace trainers at the end of the route that can straight up kill you if you try come up with any sort of Blaze strats, along with me using a different moveset than the current Chimchar route, has made this Route a nightmare.

Especially you Ace Trainer Dennis. What a faggot.

A HUGE FUCKING FAGGOT.

LIKE NO JOKE. HE'S THE GAYEST OF THEM ALL.

PJSalt PJSalt PJSalt

Well Black Belt Gregory is pretty gay too. Technically he is optional, but if you fight him and beat him, you can grab the Fist Plate, which is helpful for boosting up Mach Punch and then later Close Combat. So I think it's worth it to fight him. Problem is his 3, count them 3, Machops all know Revenge, and it's pretty hard to OHKO them. If you use 1x Leer, then 1x Return on his Machops, you can OHKO about 50% of the time, the other 50% it lives with somewhere between 1-3HP and you get slammed by a Revenge, with does 3/4ths of total health pretty much, and you have to get through 3 of these fuckers.

So to counter this I used the 2x Rare Candies you get before this battle. It's probably a mistake, but with the two extra levels, 1x Leer and 1x Return can OHKO a Macho 100% of the time. Saving a total of 3 turns compared the current route, and eliminating the chances of getting smoked by a Revenge. But I don't think this is the best way to do it, because using those Rare Candies early hurts getting to Infernape later in the run (I think, I haven't got to that point yet, but I think it will).

Now those two extra levels help your odds against Ace Trainer Maya and her partner Dennis Cockmaster 9000. Heres how gay that battle is.

Gligar: Usually a 3-4HKO with Return. Loves to spam Screech. If you get Screeched, you're going to faint against his Buizel 100%. Dennis loves to switch his Gligar into Driftblim when you're using Return though since it doesn't affect it.
Driftblim: BULKY AS SHIT. And the only reason I teach Shadow Claw to Monferno. Shadow Claw is a 2HKO which isn't bad, but like I said, this is the only battle I use it in. If there wasn't any Rain, I'd be using Flame Wheel. This fucker has Gust which is super effective, Stock Pile to troll you, and I'm pretty sure it has Swallow and Spit Up (lol sex jokes) but I don't know. Its annoying regardless.
Buizel. HOLY FUCK STAB AND RAIN BOOSTED AQUA JETS DESTROY YOU. ESPECIALLY AFTER A SCREECH FROM GLIGAR. Like no joke, you're probably going to faint from this if you got Screeched. It just rips you open. If you didn't get screeched you can live and OHKO with Return. And don't recommend Mach Punch, it still out speeds you.

Did I mention I hate him?

Well after you get past that cock block the run seems to smooth out for a bit. I'm sure Crasher Wake with push my shit in just as much when I get there but that's to be expected. When shopping in Veilstone I'm picking up the Fire Blast TM in the department store. I think it is going to be beneficial to the run, I already know I can use it in Maylenes gym to save some turns. For example:

Maylene w/ old strats:
Meditite: Guard Spec, 2x X-Attack, 1x X-Speed, probably a healing item, 1x Flame Wheel
Lucario: 1x Flame Wheel
Machoke: 1x Flame Wheel, 1x Mach Punch

Maylene w/ new strats:
Meditite: Guard Spec, 1x X-Special, 1x X-Speed, 1x Fire Blast
Lucario: 1x Fire Blast
Machoke: 1x Fire Blast

Saves three turns if you hit all your Fire Blasts, and I didn't test if you need to use the X-Special. Next time I practice that I'm going to see if Fire Blast OHKOs without an X-Special, don't know yet.

So theres a few more things I've been looking at lately. Looks like Abra strats are done when you get to this point too, since you get Fly in Veilstone. Not sure if Abra is worth it then, if you only use Teleport twice. It might be one of those things where if you run into it, you'll save time, but you're not going to go out of your way to find him. Idk yet.

Thanks for reading everyone. Also still willing to bounce ideas off of others and see what other strats we might find. I'm pretty sure my strats aren't really all that drastic in the long run. We'll see.
Last edited by theoblivinator on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:58 am

Well it turns out that I was right in thinking that using two Rare Candies to hit level 30 before Black Belt Gregory prevents you from getting to Infernape before Rival 4 in Pastoria (this is without hitting any spinners). To remedy this, I want to plan on being level 29 before Gregory instead of level 28. That way I can use 1 Calcium and use 1 Rare Candy to hit level 30 and have my Return power be enough to OHKO his Machops after a 1 Leer (I haven't looked into my happiness value at all, I'm pretty much winging it when it comes to Return's base power at this point), That way I can save the other 2 Rare Candies to hit Infernape after Psychic Abigail. The issue at hand now is figuring out how I'm going to get that extra EXP in order to make up that extra level. In reality it will probably come from hitting a few spinners. It's reasonable to assume that you'll probably have hit one or two by that point.

I'm going to go back and note how much EXP each spinner gives you. You need around 1575 extra EXP (I think) to hit level 29 before Gregory, so it isn't a huge amount. There's also a little note I'm adding, on Route 208 when catching Bibarel, you need 2 EXP points to hit level 25 before Fantina, so battling one extra Pokemon there isn't a waste of time. I don't remember what Pokemon I battled and how much EXP it gave me, I think it was around 130ish. That extra wild encounter can be taken into account when calculating how to get the extra EXP for level 29.

Once I have all that info, I can make a chart or something and have a few back-up strats on trainers or wild Pokemon to fight in order to make up that extra EXP. Hopefully it doesn't end up being something that is way out there and slow as shit, but you never know. I really want to OHKO Gregory's Machops lol.

I'm sure money will start to tie in with the Spinners hit at some point or another. Thankfully the Dept. Store is in Veilstone so you have a lot saved up by then, and you can sell some vitamins for a lot of extra cash. It'll be interesting to see how my X-Item line up will change since I'm planning on using Fire Blast and X-Specials a lot more than the current route.

One other thing, is anyone else looking into this game at all lately? I know TyrantNeptune said you were working on it at some point, are you still doing so now? I'm just wondering if anyone else out there wants to collaborate with me a bit more, or if I'm still talking to the wall. Kappa

TyrantNeptune
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by TyrantNeptune » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:54 am

I have given up on routing Kadabra when I realised how low its defence is. It allready gets completely destroyed by Ace trainer Dennis and with all the Sucker Punchers later in the game, I just don't have any hope for it. I have some other ideas for platinum, but as I also have a couple of other games that I want to route, for the moment I'm just going to sit back and watch the Infernape route unfold.

I was wondering why you didn't use an X Attack (obtained in trainer's school) against Fantina. Is there another fight where you use it? The way I defeated her was X Speed, Flame Wheel, X Attack, Flame Wheel (Duskull Faints), Flame Wheel (Haunter Faints), Flame Wheel crit (Mismagius faints, and then I was like, lolk, I'll just continue from here). Flame Wheel x2 probably kills Mismagius (and its sitrus will keep it out of heal range) so that would be the way that I would defeat Fantina.

An alternative way to obtain Flamethrower is by going to Fuego Ironworks. This probably wastes quite some time, but choice specs boosted Flamethrower saves quite some time in return.

I also saw you mentioning Bibarel strats, old strats and current strats. Assuming they all refer to the same, could you link me the strats you are refering to?

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werster
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by werster » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:26 pm

No idea if this will be helpful, as I don't even remember the fight (or the game at all really), but this is what I have written down for Fantina with Chimchar in my notes from months ago:

(Must be healed before Fantina, not in Blaze)
Fantina: Flame Wheel + Flame Wheel, Taunt + X Speed + Flame Wheel + Heal + Flame Wheel, Flame Wheel + (Blaze) Flame Wheel

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:24 am

Currently I'm using the X-Attack at Roark, but I think after taking another look at that fight it might be better to save it for Fantina. My Roark battle goes like this:

Geodude: 1x X-Attack, 1x Leer, 1x Mach Punch
Onix: 2x Mach Punch
Cranidos: 1x Mach Punch

And now that I think about it, I think my Chimchar/Monferno would be able to OHKO his Cranidos even without Leer and the X-Attack, so I could use Leer in that battle instead of the X-Attack and probably have the same results. I'll look into it.

As for Flamethrower, I don't know if I'm going to go out and get it. It takes a few minutes to grab, with surfing to the Ironworks, doing the maze, and having a battle in there. My plan was to just use Choice Specs and Fire Blast on the few mons that might need it, but I'm not sure what those are yet since I haven't got that far in my route. It's something I'd have to test to see if getting Flamethrower makes up time. And as for the notes I reference, MoneyHypeMike and Eekcast made a Chimchar route a long while ago. I don't have a link to it or a file to upload, all I have is a hard copy that I printed out for personal use. I like to make my notes with pen and paper instead of word documents and pastebins. If you want to see something from it, I could snap a picture or type a part out for you, just let me know.

@Werster: I think it is interesting that you had Taunt at that point still. I'm not sure if your route didn't use Leer, or if it used both Leer and Taunt, but I'm not sure how my route would change to have Taunt at Fantina. I'd probably get rid of Leer in the beginning and use Taunt instead. That would change my route a lot since I love using Leer. It's probably something worthwhile for me to test and see how else keeping Taunt might work out.

Just when I thought I was going to move on soon to Crasher Wake and beyond, it looks like I'm going back to the beginning to straighten some things out lol. Oh well, at least it's enjoyable.

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:23 pm

Alright I made a table of all the experience gained from spinners/roamers up to Blackbelt Gregory.

Spinners:
Lass Sarah: 90 Exp, $112
Aroma Lady Taylor: 289 Exp, $352
Galactic Grunt (Valley Windworks): 150 Exp, $520
Hiker Daniel: 514 Exp, $389
Hiker Kevin: 1266 Exp, $608
Hiker Justin: 774 Exp, $640
Hiker Jonathon: 508 Exp, $704
PKMN Breeder Albert: 1155 Exp, $960
PKMN Breeder Jennifer: 1174 Exp, $960

Hearthome Gym Roamers:
Lass Molly: 724 Exp, $368
Yongster Donny: 1004 Exp, $352
School Kid Chance: 498 Exp, $460
School Kid Mackenzie: 1142 Exp, $420
Ace Trainer Catherine: 1377 Exp, $1140
Ace Trainer Allen: 1522 Exp, $1140

I haven't figured out how much Exp the wild Pokemon in Route 210 give, I think if I was short Exp before Blackbelt Gregory that is where I would make it up so it would be a good idea to list those values as well too. Now like I said earlier, I think you need somewhere between 1575 extra EXP to hit level 29 before you battle Blackbelt Gregory (I say I think because I might have calculated it, and haven't done any practice up to that yet again). I think this extra will come from hitting some of these spinners, or at least it is safe to assume some of it will. Even though the Hikers and Hearthome Gym trainers give quite a bit, they suck to battle. Hiker battles are slow since I'm not using Grass Knot and have to rely on Mach Punch, not to mention if your health is low they can often KO you with Magnitudes and Selfdestructs (lol). The Hearthome trainers are rather slow too and they have stupid shit like Confuse Ray, Psybeams, and Drifloon's Aftermath to waste time and HP.

I have the info there, now it is just a matter of making up some strats on how to get the rest of the exp if I hit certain spinners and such. That will take quite a long time. A few other ideas that have popped into my head lately:

1.) Using Giratina for battles after it's caught? What sort of moveset would work well with it? How much higher of a level will Infernape be at this point, would it even be worth it? I don't think it will but I want to look into it.

2.) Using Staravia instead of Starly or Zubat for a Fly/Defog slave? It would have intimidate which could be useful in some battles. Staravia could come out, use intimidate, get sacked, send out Infernape for the rest of the battle. This would only work after healings because you want all your slaves fainted to skip double battles. Might not be worth is considering Staravia's catch rate and encounter rate.

3.) Should I even get Defog since Infernape can learn Aerial Ace, which has 100% accuracy in the foggy areas. I don't know what move I would teach this over though. Should I skip Defog still and use X-Accuracys?

Some other things to consider when I get to that point in the game. For now I'm going to go back and start over to take a look at using the X-Attack on Fantina instead of Roark, and try to figure out this extra Exp issue. Still chugging away slowly but surely.

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:36 pm

It looks like I'll be keeping that X-Attack for Fantina now instead of using it on Roark. I can see why I wanted to use it on Roark, now that I went back and looked at that fight again.

The problem is Onix and his Screeches. If Onix uses Screech on you, Cranidos's Headbutt does 40HP, and you're likely going to be below that considering Geodude will often use a Rock Throw on you, or Onix can use Rock Throw as well. So if you get Screeched and you're below 40HP, you'll have to switch to a slave, sack it, then send Monferno back in to finish off Cranidos. It's just too bad that my Monferno can't OHKO Cranidos with Mach Punch at that level, I was certain that it could but it doesn't seem like it can.

Roark now goes like this:
Geodude: 2x Mach Punch (might need 3x Mach Punch if you get a high damage roll on the first one and Roark uses a Potion)
Onix: 1x Leer, 2x Mach Punch
Cranidos, 1x Leer, 1x Mach Punch

Overall, it adds one turn to the fight than before, but it leads to more consistent Fantina so I'll take that. TyrantNeptune, you're Fantina strats work well for that fight. There are two hiccups. One is that Haunter isn't always an OHKO with 1 X-Attack and 1 Flame Wheel, it's a damage range. So if 1 Flame Wheel doesn't faint Haunter, Fantina will use a Super Potion the next turn. This isn't bad since it provides you an opportunity to use a Potion yourself to heal off any damage the Duskull did and that will allow you to live a Psybeam from the Mismagius. You can also try and work a heal into your setup on Duskull somewhere if needed. Again if Haunter or Mismagius confuses you, you're probably going to die, doesn't seem like there is anyway around that.

Fantina now goes like this:
Duskull: 1 X-Speed, 1x Flame Wheel, 1 X-Attack, 1x Flame Wheel
Haunter: 1x Flame Wheel (Damage Range)
Mismagius: 2x Flame Wheel (Blaze)

Something rather annoying that came up when I was practicing up to those fights was I found out some fights that I had labeled as clean OHKO's or 2HKO's turned out to be damage ranges. Most notably I found out Gardenia's Turtwig doesn't always get OHKO'd with Flame Wheel, and then it can set up Reflect which destroys my strats. A couple grunts in the Floroma Town/Valley Windworks area turned out to be damage ranges too, which is rather annoying. Guess I'll have to look into that once more at some point.

So now it's time to finish working on my Blackbelt Gregory strats and how I'm going to hit level 29 before fighting him. Then I'll probably have to look at Ace Trainer Dennis again (sigh). After that is shopping in Veilstone and beyond. So I'm almost about to hit new grounds soon, which is good. I'm sick of working on the first three gyms over and over.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:33 am

Spent a few days away from this, then came back.

Crasher Wake is pretty brutal. Intimidate Gyarados puts a dent in any of the strats I've tried to make.

Usually I lead with Infernape, hit it with a -1 Return, tank Waterfall which does anywhere between 92-110HP, switch to Bibarel, tank a Brine, use a Hyper Potion on Infernape, Bibarel faints, switch in Infernape, use an X-Attack, and KO it with a Close Combat. But that last attack is a damage range. Gyarados came sometimes live the +1 Close Combat.

Another strat starts off the same, but instead of going 1 X-Attack then Close Combat I can faint Gyarados with 2x Returns. But Quagsire doesn't faint to a Close Combat (soooo close, but no cigar). Thankfully in both situations Floatzel will faint to 1x Close Combat even without an X-Attack.

Looks like Crasher Wake's AI with Gyarados is to always use Brine if the target is below half health, so Bibarel can always live one of those. I haven't quite figured out what his deal is with Floatzel's Aqua Jet. He never seems to use it when it would kill me when I have like 14 HP or less, but uses it more frequently when I'm at high or full HP for that fight. It's a little odd.

I wish I could lead with a Close Combat right off the bat, but the defense drop means I won't survive a Waterfall. I'm kinda stuck here for a little bit longer until I figure something consistent out. I would hate for the first, third, and fifth gym leaders to all be potential run enders.

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun May 10, 2015 4:44 am

Crasher Wake:
Gyarados: 1x Fire Blast, switch to Bibarel, 1x Hyper Potion, Bibarel faints, 1x X-Attack, 1x Close Combat
Quagsire: 1x Close Combat
Floatzel: 1x Revive on slave, Infernape faints, switch to slave, Revival Herb on Infernape, slave faints, 1x Close Combat

Stupid convoluted way to beat him, but it's what I got that's consistent. Probably a better way that a better router than myself will figure out, or has already figured out. I'm using X-Accuracies in Route 210 to deal with the fog. I don't think I want to get rid of any of my moves for Aerial Ace.

I'm bad at this.

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iMAX1UP
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by iMAX1UP » Tue May 12, 2015 7:50 am

Being reading upon Chim-Char routing, good to see that people put time into such but if nobody has told anyone this my best suggestion for you guys that clearly hasnt seen a chim char run before, I would strongly suggest watch a run of chim char before start doing new routing. Not only that you guys can gather ideas among such runs as well as improve them if you have better ideas. Anyways... my best approach to improving chim char runs if you REALLY want to do so, start with rng manipulation kricketot encounter with METRONOME item at route 202. My runs are done with metronome item but since i dont know how to rng manipulate as much I end up getting that item the longer way which is buying it. This is one of the best thing i can give you guys for improving Chim Char runs. Now if you dont think this wont improve the run, prove me otherwise.
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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun May 24, 2015 11:42 pm

The metronome idea is very interesting. I'm not sure how I would go about RNG manipulating a Kricketot that's holding one, that seems pretty daunting. But I could see some potential uses for it to basically guarantee some damage ranges and pokes that are 2HKOs, and I'm sure there are some things I'm not thinking of right now that would benefit from it. I'm going to look into it.

Anyways I have been working on this still, I did quite a bit today and the last weekend. A few of the issues that I'm coming across is determining whether I want to get my health into Blaze range for a segment and rely on Flame Wheel or Fire Blast, or if it is safer/faster to rely on using Return.

I also have found two fights that could use the Choice Specs. The first being Commander Saturn and the second being Galatic Boss Cyrus in the Galatic HQ. In both of those fights, every Pokemon can be OHKO'd with Fire Blast. The pickle is now do you rely on hitting 3x Fire Blast in a row, at least TWICE in a run. I suppose if its the fastest way then sure. I've been relying on Fire Blast quite a bit in the late game actually, it kinda makes me feel uneasy about it's accuracy that might cost me a run. I suppose I'll deal with that if I ever get to a point where I'm doing runs.

Right now I stopped before the fight with Cyrus in the Distortion World. That one is going to take some time to figure out since I'm not using Rock Slide. Maybe I'll just have to use Rock Slide for that fight, not sure how it will play out. So that's a little status update.

EDIT:I just had a thought that I want to write down. So I was struggling with the Mars and Jupiter double battle when I was streaming/routing today. I ended up not using Fire Blast at all in that fight. The last time I used Fire Blast was during the fight with Cyrus in the HQ and I haven't used it since then (I'm currently just entering Victory Road). What if I replaced Fire Blast with Rock Slide when I got it, and maybe used my Rare Candies earlier to get Flare Blitz for that double battle. That would makes things hella easier. Why didn't I think of that before....

I guess I'll continue right now with Fire Blast and see if it's uses pop up anymore but if they don't I really need to go back and test that new idea.

Oh and I caught Giratina and tried using it briefly. Infernape completely outclasses Giratina at this point in the game. It was disappointing. Oddly my Giratina had a Lonely nature with 31 Attack IV lol. Too bad I didn't get the Earthquake TM.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Mon May 25, 2015 9:54 pm

HOLY SHIT!

ITS DONE!

Image

64 PAGES OF NOTES!

Now its time to do a quality check or whatever you want to call it. Basically I want to go through my route and make sure it makes sense and everything lines up. I also need to tweak the end game since I'm getting Flare Blitz and Rock Slide a bit earlier now for some problematic fights, they should be a lot easier with those moves now. And I need to get a little bit of data for the last spinners in the game on the water route before Victory Road, I forgot to do that.

I'll list some of the major points of this route that I like:
1. RNG Manipulated Chimchar for great stats and nature
2. Utilizes Blaze several times throughout the route for faster battles
3. PP Management is tight in the beginning and the end of the game
4. Potentially can catch an Abra at the beginning of the game for some teleport strategies that skip backtracking
5. Utilizes Return in conjunction with the Soothe Bell throughout the whole route
5b. This powerful move will OHKO loads of Pokemon throughout the game
5c. Using it eliminates Super Effective and Not Very Effective text in several fights
6. Utilizes Fire Blast in conjunction with the Choice Specs several times throughout the route for faster battles
7. Requires less X-Items than current Piplup route

All that is left is to tidy up my notes, practice the route a few times and come up with some back-up strats here and there. I also need to figure out that whole deal with extra experience to hit level 29 for Blackbelt Greggory too, like make up a nice chart or something with some strats for that. But the core of it is done and I'm proud of my work. It sure took me a long time but I did it none the less.

Stay tuned for more!

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by TyrantNeptune » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:28 pm

I have started routing platinum again. I'd like to know how Bibarel strats for Hearthome Rival work. Could you tell me, Oblivinator?

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:43 pm

Sorry for the late reply, I haven't checked this site lately. Anyways, the strats I'm using:

Battle style set to Shift beforehand
Battle #30 - Rival 3
Staravia: 2x Flame Wheel, Let Staravia faint Bidoof and Zubat/Starly before sending in Monferno
Prinplup: Switch in Bibarel, use as many Headbutts as possible (usually 3-4x) before fainting, switch in Monferno, 1x Return
Ponyta: 2x Return
Roselia: 1x Flame Wheel

Bibarel makes the Prinplup manageable, since Bubblebeam is usually an OHKO on Monferno. Bibarel also has a 50% to carry an Oran Berry when you catch it, usually letting it get an extra Headbutt in. Now you can catch a couple of different Bibarels obviously. If you catch one with high enough speed, you can outspeed Prinplup and possibly get several flinches with Headbutt. You can also get one with low Special Defense and Bubblebeam can faint you in three hits, so you might only get two Headbutts off. It just kinda depends on the Bibarel you get.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by Gymfreak739 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:50 pm

I know this might sound like a basic question, but why are you trying to get Monferno for Roark when you can get Grass Hidden Power for it?

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theoblivinator
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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:14 pm

The TM for Hidden Power is only available in Diamond and Pearl. It isn't an option in Platinum.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:20 am

A little update to my status on this game.

I'd been streaming attempts on the weekends lately on my twitch channel, and it took me a long long long time to finally get the RNG manipulation down to a point where I can actually hit my seed every now and then. I rarely ever got a run off since it was so difficult for me to hit my seed. Not only that but the upload internet speed at that house was abysmal so it was hard for me to get a good stream going in the first place.

Now I'm a freaking champ at mashing through the intro and hitting my seed. I can usually hit it at the very least 1 in 5 attempts, but usually I'm 1 in 3. So I've actually had a few runs get off the ground. And last weekend I moved! I have my own apartment now. And my upload internet speed doesn't shit out anymore!

So I spent today doing some attempts, actually had five runs start. 3 were killed by Fantina. I've already explained why shes a mega bitch, this just confirms it. I hate her and I hate how the biggest run ender is like an hour and ten mins into the run. Another run died to Youngster Tristan's beastly Starly that critical hit me, and another I stopped after a Starly broke out of 4 Pokeballs lol.

So I'm stilling working on my run of this game even though it been like 5 months in the making. Ideally I get a full complete run with splits and everything soon, hopefully over this three day weekend. Sorry for blogging too.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by TyrantNeptune » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:34 pm

I've watched your runs, oblivinator, and I wondered, if you have trouble with Fantina, why do you not use Heal Powders? Sure, they lower your friendship, but I think that that's worth it. If you're still having trouble even with heal powers, you could pick up the X Sp.def on route 205 to lower psybeams damage output. While it makes it harder to manipulate blaze, it prevents you from being two-hit by psybeam, allowing you to heal if you get confused by psybeam and enter killrange.

I'm a bit sceptical about getting fist plate. Have you tested how much time it saves and is it worth it to do that six turn black belt fight?

I realised I haven't shared my Dennis and Wake safe strat, so I'll do it now. You can pick up Eevee in hearthome, box it with your slaves to avoid twin double, retrieve them in solaceon, grab the thunderstone in solaceon ruins (and the defog HM while you're at it), grab shock wave on route 215, evolve Eevee and teach it Shock Wave.

Then you double battle Dennis and Maya, kill rosellia and ralts with Helping Hand+Return, kill Lickytung with Helping Hand+Mach Punch, kill Gligar with Helping Hand+Return, kill Drifblim with Shock Wave+Shadow Claw/Flame Wheel and kill Buizel with Shock Wave or Return (whichever one of the two pokes lives). Unfortunately, this does make Jolteon absorb a lot of Exp.

For Wake, you lead with Jolteon and have it use Shock Wave (it outspeeds Gyarados on pretty much all IV's. If your IV's are really low you can use a carbos on Jolt) then have it faint to waterfall. Then you can switch in Infernape and kill Gyarados with return.

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:02 pm

I had totally forgotten about the X-Special Defense at the beginning of the game, I think I'm going to amend that into my route now, I also think I'll need to add another Super Potion to my shopping trip then because if I add another turn of set-up on Duskull I'll be at a risky HP range. I can pick up a Heal Powder too. I think in the past I skipped on them because my money was too tight for them, but now I've changed my money route and I should have enough for one or two.

As for the Fist Plate, no I don't know for 100% certainty if it saves time or not. Getting it is a leftover strat from Eekcast's route that I modeled mine after. He actually had a nine turn fight there that I managed to bring down to six. Once I get a run to compare to finally, I can skip it and see if I miss out on OHKO's on some of the more bulky Pokemon. I know for a fact it makes Maya's Lickitung a 2HKO instead of a 3HKO w/ Mach Punch.

I like your Helping Hand strats, those are really clever. I don't enter the Ruins for Defog at all, so I'd hate to go out of my way for just a Thunderstone. If I did use Jolteon/Helping Hand strats I'd have to modify my route quite a bit I think. I'm going to keep that idea on the back burner and see if there is anything else we could make of it. Jolteon is actually one of my favorite Pokemon, so I'd love to use it in a run!

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Re: New Platinum Strategies

Post by theoblivinator » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:13 pm

A few new things to add to those who are interested. It's been awhile since I posted here but I've still been working on this on and off, just not as much as I was earlier since work really took off these last few weeks/months, and there was a long while where my computer was down since I took it apart to clean it and add some new hardware to it.

Anyways a few new things that I'm going to attempt to add into my route thanks too Eekcast starting to run this game again (albeit with Piplup not Chimchar). There is a seed for Chimchar that you can hit that also allows you to manipulate PokeRus in the early game. I'd like to see if that is possible with the Chimchar I'm working with, or if it has to be that specific Chimchar. There is also a lot of RNG Manip for me to work on for my route. You can manip the game to give you no encounters all the way up to Roark with perfect movement, I don't know what that movement is, Eekcast was going to share it with me at some points as well as some of his other Chimchar strats from back in the day. So soon I'd like to try and start adding those into my route.

Currently I've been doing some segmented testing runs, haven't streamed them. Once I get through what I've been testing (mostly damage ranges, money management, early experience strats, and a handful of other things) I hope I can get back to streaming some attempts again. I'd also like to look into a possible battle frontier run, I know people have talked about it, or even an E4R2 run of sorts. Food for thought.

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