Useful Tweaks

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Fretzi
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Useful Tweaks

Post by Fretzi » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:35 pm

While looking around for useful Tweaks in this Game, until now I found 3 Tweaks that can be used in Speedruns to save time.
Those were already at my Wiki Page but I guess it's a pretty good idea to write it here in the forum.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGPRtOQfXk Early Sunshore City (Skips the Galaktic Building, Mt. Coronet and Distortion World) (Saves ~20-30 Minutes)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMKb6hHkFg Early Lake Valor (Skips going to the Canalave City library) (Saves ~5 Minutes)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OGFPPrZz-0 Battle Zone without National Pokédex (Skips filling the Sinnoh Pokedex) (I don't know how much time it exactly saves but I'm sure it saves atleast an hour. This is ONLY useful for E4R2)
*All these times weren't exactly timed and could probably be wrong, they are just guessed times!

For everyone who doesn't know, the Glitch you use in Diamond/Pearl to complete the Game by walking in the Void in buildings doesn't work in Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver because they added many invisible walls there.

There could have been another useful Tweak to skip the Rival fight in Pastoria City by entering the gym from behind but because the first house in the east in Pastoria City is one tile to high, the house is on the lower loading line and the tweak doesn't work...

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by luckytyphlosion » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:17 am

I remember Eekcast saying something about why Platinum glitched is harder than people think, but I forget exactly what he said. I think it was about getting waterfall/hms/badges.
Jack-Flys are OpieOP.

"GO ASK SANQUI" - luckytyphlosion whenever someone asks about how something in Pokémon Red/Blue works. (this means you exarion Kappa)

Pokefluke
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Pokefluke » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:43 pm

This is actually quite interesting. I'm not aware of the current glitches in Plat Glitched, but as far as HM's and badges are involved, I believe these skips won't create issues later in the run. Early Sunyshore is an awesome skip, and if a Victory Road skip can be found, or at least the parts that require Rock Climb, then Snowpoint can be skipped as well.

I might start looking into the glitches into this game at some point, are there any maps with the load lines available for making routing easier.

Gymfreak739
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Gymfreak739 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:07 pm

For routing, we need to know if the game actually checks the badges at the badge check or not. Otherwise, skipping Snowpoint would be useless.

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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by anirocks99 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:07 am

Gymfreak739 wrote:For routing, we need to know if the game actually checks the badges at the badge check or not. Otherwise, skipping Snowpoint would be useless.
I doubt that they check it because if they didn't check in Heartgold, what's to say that the other guards weren't lazy in Platinum, just a thought tho OpieOP
luckytyphlosion wrote:I remember Eekcast saying something about why Platinum glitched is harder than people think, but I forget exactly what he said. I think it was about getting waterfall/hms/badges.
I remember in his afterparty of his glitchless run(tehurn obv FrankerZ ) that it was not only about hms/badges/waterfall, but the fact that its impossible to tweak in certain places such as Jublife like you could in Pearl(or so he says).
Bulbapedia wrote:navigating through the void is believed impossible due to the presence of unstable invisible walls and invalid tiles that cannot be stepped out of once entered
As a result, since its impossible to enter the void successfully, Platinum Glitched is not only practically the same route as glitchless, but is much scaled in the degree of difficulty(vice versa in Pearl where completing glitchless is harder than glitched) making Platinum Glitched another Heartgold Glitched.

Eekcast
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Eekcast » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:26 pm

the last post forced me to make an account lol

The Platinum badge check doesn't check your badges and just lets your through; easily tested with walk through walls.

No, tweaking is possible in loads of areas; the "Jubilife Tweak" is just a void tweak that allows you to enter a building backwards into the void. The void in D/P isn't solid so you can exit the bounds of the map, but in Platinum you get stuck in the first tile of the void you enter.

The issue is finding a tweak that would allow you to advance past the waterfall at the games Victory Road area (it is a water route), or past the Rock Climb sections of Victory Road (indoor tweaks work slightly differently, and usually the map has bad load lines to abuse, but I never checked this).

You can't skip Snowpoint because you need Rock Climb in Victory Road.

You can't skip Victory Road as far as I know so you can't skip anything before it.

Distortion World IS skippable. This actually does affect the route quite a bit as you're slightly lower level, especially if you decide to use Infernape, as you're skipping Rock Slide too. As a result, it might be better with Empoleon because you could just get Surf and Specs and it'd work in a similar way to glitchless.

anirocks99
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by anirocks99 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:38 am

Eekcast wrote:the last post forced me to make an account lol
I'm glad I made the great Eekcast make an account for PSR Kappa Kappa Kappa

Thanks for the clarifications btw on the OOB Tweaking. Do you know of any load lines near Victory Road where we can abuse it or is it null and void for now. As well as that, how are we going to deal with the lack of levels, even though Empoleon is OP as hell, it alone can't take down a game that shaved at least 1 hour of play.

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by luckytyphlosion » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:28 am

I guess you could try to use a combonation of Azelf and Empoleon or another high leveled Pokémon...

EDIT: Nvm, you need to beat Giratina to get to Lake Valor. Unless there's a Tweak for it TriHard...
Jack-Flys are OpieOP.

"GO ASK SANQUI" - luckytyphlosion whenever someone asks about how something in Pokémon Red/Blue works. (this means you exarion Kappa)

Eekcast
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Eekcast » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:12 pm

anirocks99 wrote:how are we going to deal with the lack of levels, even though Empoleon is OP as hell, it alone can't take down a game that shaved at least 1 hour of play.
Surf and specs from an RNG manipulated Empoleon is still probably strong enough. The lack of levels can also be made up by rare candies the glitchless route doesn't collect for empoleon if they are actually required; though I think with proper testing it can probably work at a low level and you wont have to go out of your way to get these extra Rare Candies.

Gymfreak739
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Gymfreak739 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:23 am

Here are some theoretical tweaks for all of you guys to test out (mainly because I'm too lazy BibleThump )

1) Could we get past the Psyducks on route 210 (saves a few minutes)
2) Could we tweak in Hearthome for two possible results:
a) Skip Fantina and go straight to the route to the east (saves about 5 minutes)
b) Go south down to Route 212 and go straight to Pastoria (saves about 20-25 minutes to Wake, but no fly, meaning walk back from Snowpoint or no Poke Center and teleport with an Abra)

Since we don't need fly or defog, we don't really need to find Fantina or Maylene if we find ways to skip them. Now I will wait 1 day for someone to tell my why none of these will work, and then I will get PJSalt about it Kappa

Fortranm
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Fortranm » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:38 am

I posted the results of my testing with MKD's lua script on TASVideos forum a month ago. I'll post them here as well.
The three major skips mentioned by OP seem to be the only ones working. None of the theoretical tweaks mentioned by Gymfreak739 works. Another one I tried is tweaking into the upper part of Solaceon Ruins to skip all the trainers on Route 215, but it doesn't work. Tweaking on Route 215 does produce abnormality, but it's still impossible to skip the Psyducks.
Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmGm_zr69rQ
Please note that some voids created by tweaking require Surf to go through, and any of them before the point you get Surf in Celestic Town won't be helpful. Another thing is that Pt has many sequence breaking prevention that weren't in D/P. There are two major ones that I noticed. First, you can't enter Pastoria Gym before the double battle in Veilstone City, and I tried to tweak into Pastoria Gym and failed. Second, there are Galactic grunts blocking the entrance to the northern part of Mt. Coronet until you beat Mars for the second time.

I did find another potentially useful tweak however. It is possible to tweak into Pal Park. You will be able to encounter Kanto birds before getting the sixth badge. If the roaming encounter can be manipulated like in HGSS any%, catching ether Zapdos or Moltres at Lv60 should help an any% or R2E4 run a lot. Maybe these two categories should be combined since tweaking enables you to skip the National-dex check?
Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFo_caXnJlY

I tested Piplup/Moltres route on emulator with massive S/L. Here is the sequence after the fifth badge:
Chase Galactic grunt and meet Cynthia in Valor Lakefront;
Tweak to skip Sunyshore guard, meet Volkner in the lighthouse, and fly to Solaceon Town;
Go to Celestic Town, get Surf, and fly to Sandgem Town;
Tweak into Pal Park, meer Oak in Eterna City, and catch Moltres on the way to Valor Lakefront;
Tweak into Lake Valor and beat Saturn, go to Lake Verity and beat Mars, get TM38 (Fire Blast), and fly to Jubilife City;
Go to Canalave City and beat the gym, take the ship to Iron Island and get HM04 (Strength), and fly to Celestic Town;
Go to Snowpoint City and beat the gym, fly to Sunyshore City and beat the gym, and go beat Round 1 of the Elite Four;
Fly to Snowpoint City, take the ship to Fight Area, and do the double battle (or is this one skippable?);
Skip the National-dex check by tweaking, finish the event at Stark Mountain, and go beat Round 2 of the Elite Four.
Moltres was at Lv 75 in the end if I remember correctly.

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werster
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by werster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:02 pm

Thought I may as well post here for anyone not in the discord since I actually did some digging into this, and I hate seeing mis-information.

Psyduck tweak is possible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4EE8vlGVI

Saves: Fighting Grunt, watching cutscene of Grunt coming out, chasing him, Looker cutscene, Cynthia cutscene, Cynthia cutscene again.
Potential: Can also get Specs and Surf earlier than usual. Currently an idea in conjunction with early Tentacruel strats

Small other tweak to skip Abigail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJJocVPzgi0
Just saves fighting her

It's also possible to skip Maylene by tweaking into Wake's gym (this has been known for a while) which will almost certainly end up being faster when used in conjunction with Abra route.

Another potential useful tweak if a load delay tweak on Route 212 to skip the only 2 Mandatory trainer on that route. It requires a Load-Delay (1-2-3-2-1-5-1-2), and is only potentially useful if using Abra+No Fly route (coming back to Sunnyshore) and only saves time if you hit it very fast.

Fortranm
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Re: Useful Tweaks

Post by Fortranm » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:41 am

Is tweaking into Wake's gym done by tweaking at route 213? Would be great if you make a video for it.
Running tweak allows early lake valor without Surf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEUjdV9gnco
Mystic Water before Surf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zidq2kJEWng
It's also possible to skip the mandatory trainer on Route 222 with void tweak.
The tweaking on Route 206 works. You can skip both professor's helper and other trainers on Route 207 just like in D/P.

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