Reducing turn frames after interactions

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Exarion
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Reducing turn frames after interactions

Post by Exarion » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:01 am

Fun little discovery today:

Turning from a stationary position normally costs 8 frames, and most Gen 3 runs I've seen (including my own) get turn frames after the final dialogue box of every interaction. However, this can be avoided in certain cases by holding a direction as you enter the interaction.

For example, when you talk to Dock in Slateport City, if you hold right as you talk to him with A, you'll be able to walk left after the cutscene without getting a turn frame. If you stop holding right before talking to him with A, you'll get the turn frame. Holding right as you time/mash A inputs does not cause the interaction to begin any later, so this is a free 8-frame save for anyone who wasn't using this method already.

Correct method: https://youtu.be/vrYLC5DTypg?t=27m59s
Incorrect method: https://youtu.be/_ld8MzBEHYc?t=29m26s

This method appears to not work if a map is loaded at any time during the interaction. So it doesn't work for battles, because the game reloads the map upon exiting the battle. It doesn't work for cutscenes that span multiple maps. It DOES work for item balls, berries, and NPC interactions that don't involve loading a map.

I'll update this post if anyone else has clarifications/corrections.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

MKDasher
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Reducing turn frames after interactions

Post by MKDasher » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:22 pm

Found this a while ago, I guess it was my fault to not explain it properly when I had to.

I spent some time in the past trying to figure how to avoid or reduce the extra turn frames that you get from a stationary position. As far as I know there are 3 ways, and not sure if all of them are well known.

- Avoiding turn frames after interactions: this is pretty much what exarion explained. When you talk to an NPC, or interact with something, you can keep your momentum so that when you stop interacting with it, the game thinks you were walking / running and you weren't on a stationary position. As Exarion said, holding the direction to talk the NPC is the easiest way to get this, but it's technically not neccesary, since it would work if you frame perfect hit A to talk to the NPC as well, but obviously the other way is much more consistent.
(Actually, if it's a hidden item, it's still possible to avoid the turn frames by frame perfect hitting A, and actually the only possibility there).

As Exarion said, reloading map causes the character to lose its momentum, so you wouldn't be able to avoid the turning frames that way. (For example, opening PC and deposit a pokemon wouldn't save the turn frame, but opening PC and closing it would. Also Pokecenter healing works as well).

- Bonking: as I showed on this video 2 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76SmqD4-4JM, this is an already known way to reduce the turn frames. Usually helpful after battles, since you are normally facing a trainer, and the method above wouldn't work because the map is reloaded. By bonking into a trainer, you can instantly change your direction, avoiding the turn frames. If done frame perfectly it saves 7 frames, but on average they might save 3-4 frames.

- Opening menu / bag / etc: you can open a bag while turning from stationary, cancelling some of those 8 frames. I'll take as an example exiting Misty's gym in Firered after you get your badge. You exit the gym facing down, and you want to turn left, but obviously none of the previous methods would work here. Also, you need to teach Water Pulse before next fight (Rival 2), so the optimal way to do this is, you turn to the left and inmediately open the TM case. The TM case can be opened in any of the 8 frames that turning costs, and it'll cancel the frames left. Then after teaching Water pulse, you can just run to the left without any extra turning frame.
Last edited by MKDasher on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Amoeba
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Re: Reducing turn frames after interactions

Post by Amoeba » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:53 pm

Funnily enough, I use a similar one to that opening menu/bag one MK. You can cancel the turn frames in a similar way by getting on the Mach Bike, if it's your registered item. Useful if you both need to get on your bike and head in a different direction from the one you're facing (for instance, when you leave Mauville Gym).
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MKDasher
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Re: Reducing turn frames after interactions

Post by MKDasher » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:57 pm

Amoeba wrote:Funnily enough, I use a similar one to that opening menu/bag one MK. You can cancel the turn frames in a similar way by getting on the Mach Bike, if it's your registered item. Useful if you both need to get on your bike and head in a different direction from the one you're facing (for instance, when you leave Mauville Gym).
Oh didn't think about that, since I'm more used to firered where bike has only 1 turn frame instead of 8, so haven't tested enough stuff with Mach bike, but yeah that sounds like a nice way to cancel the turn frames.

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G_heinz
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Re: Reducing turn frames after interactions

Post by G_heinz » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:35 pm

good stuff ex. i was familiar with the bonk method from mevrng's old firered guide, but this is a nice new addition.

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