Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Locked
Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:22 am

All spinners in Gen 3 can be dodged 100% of the time by opening the bag or the Pokemon menu on the tile before you pass them.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynzNOptfRtw

For some reason, opening the bag or Pokemon menu resets a spinner's clock to frame 0. As we know from previous threads, spinners cannot spin until frame 32, and it takes 16 tiles to pass them. So to pass them, simply wait until they spin away from you, open the bag, close the bag, and then close the main menu. This takes about 3 seconds, so it might not be worth it for spinners that can be manipulated in faster ways, such as Wilton and Bryce.

This opens up some interesting strategies for when to use healing items, repels, etc., but more importantly, it means the game can be routed spinnerless.

Menu manipulation timing
Sapphire: 2.25 seconds RTA (unknown IGT)
Emerald: 2.5 seconds RTA (unknown IGT)
Last edited by Exarion on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

User avatar
Amoeba
Cooltrainer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:26 am

Sweet jesus this is a happy day.
~

User avatar
Sinstar
Jr. Trainer
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:35 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Sinstar » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:29 am

Even Fire Red? PogChamp That round 2 run I just did got destroyed by spinners.
Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:32 am

I haven't tested Fire Red, but if all the other spinner mechanics are the same, I'm guessing this one is as well.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

User avatar
Sinstar
Jr. Trainer
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:35 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Sinstar » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:34 am

Just tested, it seems to be working.
Kappa Kappa Kappa Kappa

User avatar
werster
Site Admin
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by werster » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:29 am

Insanely sick find

User avatar
Gunnermaniac3
Bug Catcher
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:12 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Gunnermaniac3 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:45 am

Incredible. I may have to revisit gen 3.

User avatar
zackcat
Known Troller
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by zackcat » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:21 am

don't believe the lies!!!
Image
Image

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:54 am

Thinking about it more, I think it'll be faster on average to YOLO some spinners or attempt more difficult manipulation. Obviously, some situations demand a 100% consistent method (Karen after a god Abra, the double spinners after Fiery Path, etc.).

Also see my original post for menu manip timing.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

User avatar
RXFADEZ
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by RXFADEZ » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:36 am

Yeah I had this idea yesterday and was talking about it in the Emerald Group Chat. I tested it and it resets the spinners movements so they will stay still for the exact number of frame you need to walk across. Thanks for doing a bit more testing just to confirm this theory.

The reason it works is because when you exit the overworld all spinners are frozen and reset but not moved. Opening the menu doesn't do this, but entering a battle, opening your bag, etc will.

User avatar
werster
Site Admin
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by werster » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:45 pm

Just to be clear, hoping the timer starts on the unpause, rather than when you exit the menu (so you could actually do this up to 3 tiles away with Mach Bike and always get through, and not have to time the unpause to really good consistency)

Also about IGT: My (very rough) testing seemed to indicate a load had 10 frames not counted to IGT, this is 2 loads so it'd be 20 frames less time lost than it "seems"

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:33 pm

werster wrote:Just to be clear, hoping the timer starts on the unpause, rather than when you exit the menu (so you could actually do this up to 3 tiles away with Mach Bike and always get through, and not have to time the unpause to really good consistency)
Yes, it starts on the unpause. Interestingly, spinners will spin on different frames based on how quickly you unpause, but never earlier than the 32nd frame after it.
Also about IGT: My (very rough) testing seemed to indicate a load had 10 frames not counted to IGT, this is 2 loads so it'd be 20 frames less time lost than it "seems"
I'm assuming this is for Emerald; do you know if it's different for Sapphire? I'm guessing it is, considering Sapphire menus have less lag.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

User avatar
werster
Site Admin
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 am

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by werster » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:20 am

Never looked at Sapphire, but less loading time would indicate less IGT lost, yes

JP_Xinnam
Schoolkid
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:39 pm

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by JP_Xinnam » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:29 pm

That's a great find! I'll be sure to implement it in my runs.

EDIT: Actually, I just had a thought and tested it: It only works with pause menu + pokemon/bag. It can't work for a registered bag menu (i.e., the tm case)

User avatar
RXFADEZ
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by RXFADEZ » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:01 pm

Why wouldn't it work with the TM case? I mean I'm not familiar with FR/LG but surely that qualifies as leaving the overworld?

JP_Xinnam
Schoolkid
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:39 pm

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by JP_Xinnam » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:02 pm

RXFADEZ wrote:Why wouldn't it work with the TM case? I mean I'm not familiar with FR/LG but surely that qualifies as leaving the overworld?
After thinking about it for a minute, the timer reset probably triggers on the action of entering the Pokemon menu or the bag menu. Going directly into the TM Case bypasses going into the bag, thus it does not work.

User avatar
MEvRNG
Bug Catcher
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:32 pm

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by MEvRNG » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:04 am

You my friend, are a LEGEND.

User avatar
RXFADEZ
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Pass spinners with 100% consistency

Post by RXFADEZ » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:30 am

Does anyone have a battery file for FR/LG that has the TM Case and is near some spinners?
I want to test out some stuff around there.

Locked

Return to “Generation 3”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest