Consoles vs Emulators

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jtmagicman
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Consoles vs Emulators

Post by jtmagicman » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:15 am

So I wanted to start a forum discussion regarding consoles vs emulators

Before I go into this I understand some people just cannot afford to play on console for example its around $500 for a 3ds/cap card

I wanted to clear things up more then anything/get peoples opinions on it

Should emulators/console runs be put in a different category for EVERY game?

Like playing on an emu for a main series ds game is an advantage as it loads quicker

Anyway feel free to add your thoughts/opinions below

FractNL
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Re: Consoles vs Emulators

Post by FractNL » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:41 pm

I think emulator should be allowed for gen 1 and 2 because Gambatte is really exact. For Gen 3 the emulator seems fine too, for gen 4/5 it is harder because Desmume is not that exact due to loading times etc. So maybe we should look how big the difference is and then conclude if we should use emulator for gen 4/5.

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Re: Consoles vs Emulators

Post by Vulajin » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:22 pm

It should always be considered on a case-by-case basis. As you rightly pointed out, DS emulators have an advantage over consoles, so we've decided to categorize separately. As such, let's omit gen 4-5 from our discussion.

For categories that use in-game time, what matters is whether the in-game timer is a consistent measure of comparison between console and emulator. For gen 1-2 games, as far as we know, this is the case because the in-game timer counts frames. I think this is also the case for gen 3? The only other games I can think of where game time is even considered are XD and Colosseum, and I don't know anything about how the timers work in those games.

For categories that use real time, what matters is whether the emulator is cycle-accurate, i.e. it realistically emulates the console's framerate, lag frames, and even such things as how long it takes the console to read data off the cartridge/disc/whatever. This is a pretty tough thing to manage, and I'm not sure how many emulators fall under this category. I believe that Gambatte does, but, for example, I don't think there are any Gamecube emulators offering this level of accuracy. (Of course, for disc-based games, it may be literally impossible to "accurately" emulate disc read times, which can be variable.)

So to restate my position, I think it's important to consider emulators on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes we will find that emulators are faster in some capacity and need to be either banned or separately categorized. Sometimes we will find that only one emulator is accurate enough to be permitted. And sometimes we will find everything works just fine and we can permit a level playing field between console and emu (as in gen 1). No single ruling will properly handle all of these situations.

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jtmagicman
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Re: Consoles vs Emulators

Post by jtmagicman » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:26 pm

so apparently there was a thread already on this

viewtopic.php?f=117&t=260

Vulajin
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Re: Consoles vs Emulators

Post by Vulajin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:48 am

Were you intending to start a discussion on DS runs specifically? If so, yes, that has been discussed and emu runs and console runs are separate categories, for DS speedruns specifically.

If you were intending to start a more general discussion of emulators across console types, this would be the place to have it.

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Re: Consoles vs Emulators

Post by Zewing » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:36 pm

I see that XD / Colo was mention in terms of emu vs. console.

I'm unsure how the timer works since running both of these games on dolphin greatly hinders the framerate. I only know the starting and end points though since I get people who constantly ask "Why is IGT LONGER than RTA?" From my limited technical knowledge, I think the in game timer starts upon the final input for name selection and ends UPON saving the game just before each game's credits.

The game technically counts IGT after the final save for colo, so you must reset after the final save. For XD, however, the time after the final save DOES NOT accumulate.

This discussion for colo/xd really doesn't deserve the attention right now, but in the future we could have a better gamecube emulator to test things out and, who knows, emu and console could potentially be accurate enough to not deserve LB separation.

But for now, running XD/Colo on emu leads to crashes and slow framerates. I believe eekcast has the most experience testing these games on emu so he should know more than me
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