Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Feedback relating to the forum and wiki.
Keizaron
Site Admin
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by Keizaron » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:34 am

Can't say I'm speaking for all of the staff, but my response about RBY Any% is it displays literally nothing about the game. The vast majority of Any% runs throughout speedrunning show off the game in some capacity, even if it's a really fast and quick run. It isn't much more than a novelty of a category because the primary focus of the game, battling, is literally non-existent. No other Any% category within the Pokemon series skips an entirety like that. It just isn't worth the headache of having a moderated leaderboard.

Edit: To clarify because you people love to argue, "battling" is a general term that includes the entirety of the battle system, including catching.

Second edit: Lighthearted comment above is lighthearted.
Last edited by Keizaron on Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

entrpntr
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:22 pm

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by entrpntr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:27 am

Keizaron wrote:Can't say I'm speaking for all of the staff, but my response about RBY Any% is it displays literally nothing about the game. The vast majority of Any% runs throughout speedrunning show off the game in some capacity, even if it's a really fast and quick run. It isn't much more than a novelty of a category because the primary focus of the game, battling, is literally non-existent.
Off the top of my head: Mega Man 1, Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Link's Awakening DX, VVVVVV, Super Mario Bros 3, A Link to the Past. All in the 1-3 minute range with basically no gameplay but all are main categories on speedrun.com. Given these precedents, it's certainly a reasonable question to ask; likewise, it's perfectly fine if we choose to be more conservative with our categories than other communities.
Keizaron wrote:It just isn't worth the headache of having a moderated leaderboard.
Seeing as this is essentially what I said, I obviously agree with it, and think it's a far more compelling justification than the ones in the previous responses. Acknowledging the category without having to moderate a leaderboard would be my preference, if this is feasible on speedrun.com.
Keizaron wrote:Edit: To clarify because you people love to argue, "battling" is a general term that includes the entirety of the battle system, including catching.
What a disappointing contribution. This is the Feedback and Suggestions forum; Amoeba was seeking clarity and your responses were plainly self-contradictory, incoherent, and only confused the matter. That is understandably frustrating, and I'm sorry if you think pushing back against that is from a deep love of arguing. You've twisted his words ("I haven't come wading in here expecting all to be changed to suit my opinions, I just wanted to talk about this and get other people's opinions on it." -> "If you weren't expecting changes to come from this, then why argue to a level that you appear annoyed or frustrated?") and have been generally rude/dismissive, so it's pretty laughable that you are the one now responding with righteous indignation.

If this is going to be the response to reasonable requests/input, there are way deeper issues than how we determine categories. I'd like to say this is the first time I've seen it play out this way, but it's not.

Keizaron
Site Admin
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by Keizaron » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:42 pm

Well, since this is the second time that me making a lighthearted comment has been taken negatively, I guess I won't make those anymore. Shame that you have to focus on the perceived negative of my comments and pinpoint it as if that were the serious response to things.

Edit: It's a bigger shame to me because, despite the fact that your initial post to me felt a bit more confrontational than you intended with the "Leaderboard Admin Keizaron" comments, I didn't focus on that, I merely pointed out it felt negative but then responded to your concerns to the best of my ability in as fast of a manner as I could.

User avatar
Amoeba
Cooltrainer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by Amoeba » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:02 pm

Don't think moderating should be a concern if any% leaderboards were added, if people are serious about wanting the category added they should also be willing to help in the execution of adding it. I'd certainly be willing help with that.
~

User avatar
Amoeba
Cooltrainer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by Amoeba » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:19 pm

For the sake of clarity entr, both Keizaron and I have spoken outside of this thread and realised that, in his words, "we don't have a good read on each other so its easy to assume we're bickering". We don't agree with each other on the points we've made but we settled the name calling.

tl;dr we were both a bit of a twat but no hard feelings, and we still want to discuss this if other people feel it needs discussing.
~

entrpntr
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:22 pm

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by entrpntr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:36 pm

Okay, if that single statement was lighthearted, then my bad. I saw it as a continuation of "Quit being an ass trying to argue for the sake of arguing" and the like on the previous page, but if you guys are cool now then whatever, no sense in pushing it. And for the sake of hugging it out, wasn't trying to be confrontational in OP, just using a basic rhetorical device, but those are clearly just as dangerous as lighthearted statements.

I don't really have much to add beyond what I've said. I don't know if Amoeba feels like he has satisfactory answers to his questions, which is the only stuff I see worth discussing further. The gist of werster and Keizaron's responses were that categories are pretty self-explanatory and questions that do arise can be answered pretty easily. Can't say I think the last few days' worth of posts have borne that out, but I'll stop inserting myself and let other people be the judge.

User avatar
Amoeba
Cooltrainer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Clarity on criteria for determining official categories

Post by Amoeba » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:47 am

I wasn't looking for answers really, just to see how people felt about these issues. There aren't really answers because these aren't black and white questions. I'm fine with the reasoning given for the challenge mode leaderboards, and not worried enough to want to press the emerald any% leaderboard thing any further, unless people also had issues with either of those. Would like to see if anyone else thinks the same as yourself and I with red/blue any% though.
~

Locked

Return to “Feedback and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests