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Turnframe observations in Gen 2

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:21 am
by entrpntr
(Part 1 in a series of tying up loose ends with the GSC knowledge base.)

See here: for everything I've determined on turnframes, bonking, and other movement quirks in GSC. This affects how you should approach movement in several parts of GSC runs; the overall impact is pretty small and the knowledge is mainly useful as a tie in with encounter immunity mechanics (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=454) in avoiding encounter rolls where possible (or in maximizing them when surfing for Poliwag), but in any case this knowledge was needed so that GSC runners can account for each frame as meticulously as Red runners do.

A couple of useful applications on Route 32 in Gold should hopefully illustrate things a bit more clearly. First is the movement path up to Albert:

If you get an encounter on the last patch of grass before him, you should use the 4 encounter roll immunities and walk into his vision in the tile immediately in front of him. On the pictured tile, you would get 5 encounter rolls if you tried to talk to him from the side (1 turnframe after encounter, 3 steps in grass, 1 turnframe after side-bonk).

Also for the Super Potion later on:

If picking it up, you should walk to the tile the Super Potion was on to avoid the turnframe. It's 2 encounter rolls either way, so it saves 8 frames (unless you get an encounter on that tile in which case it's a wash) over walking straight down afterwards.

Not going to go over every useful application (pretty sure I forgot some in the course of writing this up anyway), but here are a few other places this knowledge can help out:
  • General movement (not getting 'stuck' on a tile)
  • Pause buffering spinners
  • Boulder pushing
  • Timing the rotatos in Radio Tower (need to waste 18 frames on way up, 2 frames on way back) and Route 44 (need to waste 2 frames)
  • Turning in place for Poliwag (***EDIT: Go here to see how a true warrior does this.)
I'm not sure I explained everything clearly or properly (not sure exactly what the game is doing on some of the delay frames), but I'm confident in my general observations of the mechanics (assuming they didn't change in Crystal). Feel free to ask for clarification on anything or suggest other places where any of this might come in handy.

Re: Turnframe observations in Gen 2

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:22 am
by entrpntr
Just adding a few things that I didn't mention in the post or pastebin that I've thought of since:

(1) Pre-Repel movement

Route 29 and Route 31 can also utilize this knowledge in various ways to avoid extra turnframes and/or encounter rolls.

General tactics to keep in mind in the early game are:
  • Menu when facing the direction you're going to be heading
  • Avoid walking to 'bad' tiles that will force a turnframe if you get an encounter (applies to the 1st & 3rd grass patches on Route 29)
  • Taking 1 extra step in grass after an encounter is fine if it avoids a turnframe and doesn't take you out of your way (as illustrated in the Route 32 Super Potion; also applies if you get an encounter on the third tile in the 2nd grass patch on Route 29)
You can avoid turnframes on almost every possible encounter tile if you plan your movement correctly. To be a bit more concrete, you have done something wrong if you have had ANY post-encounter turnframes before Mikey (**EDIT: actually you can get 1 on the second trip up Route 30, in the first patch of grass).

Even in a couple places where you can't guarantee that you'll avoid turnframes (e.g. Route 31 [last grass patch] and Union Cave [in Gold]) you can use a zig-zag pattern to try to delay walking to 'bad' tiles; then if an encounter does come, you can take advantage of your 4 encounter roll immunities and walk to the 'bad' tile without risking a turnframe.

(2) Biking

When turning immediately after exiting a building/cave or transitioning to land after surfing, walking an extra step to avoid a turnframe is often equivalent to immediately mounting your bike (16 [walk] = 8 [bike] + 8 [turnframe]). This happens in several places throughout each run (e.g. Squirtbottle house, Lake of Rage); there may be places where you find it easier to do one movement or the other due the wonkiness of bike lag.

(3) Ladders

This was already well understood, but when you can approach ladders from one of two directions (e.g. Lighthouse, Mahogany Hideout), you should enter them in a direction that will help avoid turnframes on the next floor (when possible).

(4) Blackthorn

Surfing on the right side of the gym to get to the Dragon's Den is the same number of tiles and will save a turnframe since you won't have to turn on the first Surf tile. This is a flat 8 frame timesave.



(5) Pallet Town

Another 8 frame timesave: 3 extra surf [48] vs 5 extra bike + 2 turnframes [56]