Double encounter rolls

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entrpntr
Pokémon Trainer
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:22 pm

Double encounter rolls

Post by entrpntr » Mon May 04, 2015 2:52 am

Gifhevexxin posted this pastebin today, outlining mechanics he found for when 2 encounter rolls will occur on the same tile. Basically, once you switch from a non-moving state to a continuously moving state, your "first turn" will result in an extra encounter roll operation (as well as some turnframes), and thus a second chance at an encounter before proceeding to the next tile. If your "first turn" occurs during the 2 steps following your previous encounter, however, you will avoid having the double encounter roll, since you'll be immune thanks to the well-known 3-step rule. Once you go back to a non-moving state (encounter, menu, stairs/warp panel, etc), a flag gets unset, and you will have another double encounter roll at your next "turn". Be sure to read the whole paste for full details.

Gifhevexxin lays out a couple of general applications of this knowledge. First, you can be smarter about the paths you take in encounter areas, primarily in Mt. Moon, where you will have numerous encounters and numerous places where you need to turn. On top of this, the encounter rolls are intimately connected with Repel steps; it appears that each encounter roll reduces the Repel counter by 1, which is why your Repels can run out before you might expect.

The other application is in Dsum manipulation. I would think it pretty much obsoletes step-based Dsum manipulation (for walking anyway), because you can use the double encounter knowledge to get encounter rolls more frequently. Instead of having 1 encounter roll per 17 frames (walk [17], roll, walk [17], roll), you can get 2 encounter rolls per 21 frames with optimal movement (turn in place [4], roll, walk [17], roll, turn in place [4], roll, walk [17], roll). So with perfect movement you could theoretically get 62% more encounter rolls.

A good way to practice this is setting up a Super Repel, and seeing how fast you can get it to wear off by walking. In the perfect case, you can do it in 100 steps @ 21 frames per step (as opposed to the normal 200 steps @ 17 frames per step). With timing practice, you should be able to get this down to about 23 frames per step at the very least, which is still about a 48% increase in encounter rolls. This VOD is probably close to maxing out what a human can do, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong: http://www.twitch.tv/entrpntr/v/4669709. Practicing with a 165 bpm metronome was something I found helpful to get the timing down, but you could also use visual cues to help in establishing a rhythm.

It's not clear to me if wall-bonking or corner-bonking can make this even more efficient, or if they would be the same; if anyone could clarify, that would be appreciated. I know there are some similar turnframe/repel mechanics in Gens 2 and 3, so even without Dsum manip, there may be some possible applications there as well. Any other ideas on how this knowledge could be used are of course welcome.

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zackcat
Known Troller
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Double encounter rolls

Post by zackcat » Mon May 04, 2015 8:32 am

just use cut on all the grass tiles.
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Exarion
Cooltrainer
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Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Double encounter rolls

Post by Exarion » Wed May 06, 2015 2:57 pm

Update (clarifies when you are in a "non-moving" state): http://pastebin.com/k2r0fnsn
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

entrpntr
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:22 pm

Re: Double encounter rolls

Post by entrpntr » Wed May 06, 2015 10:38 pm

Turn Frame God wrote:assumes buffered/held movement following the event

...

a turn frame will never occur after you
- end a trainer battle; !+walk, !+no walk
- end a wild battle
- close the menu
So do turn frames exist if you don't buffer your inputs after these events? And does it just get rid of the turn frame for the first tile of movement, or does the "first turn" just go away for good (until the next warp/stairs/door/etc)? From brief testing, it seemed like the latter, which is neat. Regardless, one implication I can immediately see is that it is pointless to evolve to Nidoking early (after an encounter) for the purposes of avoiding a double encounter roll; there's no turn frame when evolving the square before the Rocket as was initially assumed.

Lastly:
Turn Frame God wrote:carpet squares
What in the Sam Hill are carpet squares? **EDIT: Guess this probably means the tiles you're standing on after entering buildings?

**EDIT 2: Think I've answered all my own questions with some proper testing: Looks like the turn frames do exist if you don't buffer your inputs after battles/menus, and the "first turn" does just go away when you do buffer your inputs. One other thing (of academic value only): Repel does not tick on turn frames after battles until you have taken your 3 steps.

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Sinstar
Jr. Trainer
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Re: Double encounter rolls

Post by Sinstar » Thu May 07, 2015 2:25 am

I'm fairly certain turn frames and double encounter rolls can be summed up by the general rule that they only occur when you start moving from a stationary position, you never stop moving after an encounter/item pickup if the movement is buffered.
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