Turn frames

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Exarion
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Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Turn frames

Post by Exarion » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:52 pm

Hey guys,

I've been using Gambatte's "Frame Step" tool to test how many frames you lose when turning while standing still, but my results are inconsistent. A step in the same direction from a "still" position (i.e. moving down when you are facing down) appears to take 18 frames, and a step in a different direction from a "still" position (i.e. moving down when you are facing left) appears to take 20 or 21 frames. (The last number has varied based on how long I've held the down key.)

The Yellow guide on the Wiki says you lose 4 frames, and I've heard Gunner say this as well. Has anyone found a sure way to test this?
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

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Masteri Mori
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Turn frames

Post by Masteri Mori » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:17 pm

That's basically what I did to calculate movement/menuing times. I think you might counting the frame where you press the button as well, because you can generally buffer movement, meaning that frame doesn't really exist in a run. Off the top of my head, here are my timings for movement/menuing:

Walking/Surfing: 17 frames/tile
Biking: 9 frames/tile
Stationary turn: 4 frames
Jumping a ledge: 42 frames
Moving the cursor in a menu: 4 frames
Menu scrolling (the cursor stays in the same position, but the items move): 6 frames
Pressing Select to switch a move/items: 6 frames
Moving between first and last move slots: 6 frames

Bonking is incredibly awkward to time, but I've heard that it's 6 frames.

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Turn frames

Post by Exarion » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:59 pm

Thanks, this is really helpful! I've heard 8 frames for bonking, but I've never tested it.

EDIT: I did some more testing, and I uploaded a video to YouTube that might help. If my tests are accurate, turn frames don't exist in certain cases, such as when you turn after exiting a building.

The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne-SlU ... e=youtu.be

I did the same test with turning after jumping a ledge, and again, the times were almost identical.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Turn frames

Post by Exarion » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:05 pm

A third test, this one with ladders in Mt. Moon, produces similar results to the first two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIu7KJPcwBQ
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

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Masteri Mori
Bug Catcher
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Turn frames

Post by Masteri Mori » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:59 pm

Hmmm... I knew that turn frames don't exist after jumping a ledge, but not after ladders/leaving a building (aside: GODDAMMIT, getting the Bike Voucher first in Yellow isn't faster). I used the Frame Step and Decrease Frame Rate functions to originally time turning after leaving a building, and I noticed a difference, but I just found out that the Frame Step function is kinda messed up: Image

I hope that none of my timings for menuing, etc are off now because that'd mean I'd have to rethink all the menus.

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gifhevexxin
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:31 pm

Re: Turn frames

Post by gifhevexxin » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:47 am

If what the picture is demonstrating is that you walked an extra tile into the gambler's line of sight, that is indeed a bug, but not with frame step. I didn't know about it until a couple of weeks ago when Shenanagans was streaming a Pidgey run and used the trick to dodge a trainer in Silph Co. After making sure it was as simple as it seemed, the description I settled on for the demonstration video was:
In short: Trainers are loaded facing downwards when appearing after being offscreen. There is a frame window before it updates direction and sees you. Pressing start and leaving the map during this window is the concept behind the trainer fly glitch / Mew glitch.

Apparently, during that window, you can just keep walking.
So the timings you found are correct, which is what I was searching for and why I stumbled across this old post :)

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