Need explanation

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Aworax
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Need explanation

Post by Aworax » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:10 pm

Hello everyone,

yesterday I started a Colosseum run and something strange happened.

Everyone knows the fight in Agate Village between Eagun and Cipher Peon Skrub.
The battle is really simple. Pikachu use Quick Attack, Hitmontop use Shadow rush, Pikachu use Quick Attack, Hitmontop use Shadow rush and the fight is over.
In "my" fight Pikachu missed the second Quick Attack! How can this happen? I thought the 256 from Gen.1 was fixed off Gen.2 ?

Here the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMDGF6Wg7bU

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Need explanation

Post by luckytyphlosion » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:52 pm

I haven't played Colloseum, but from what I've seen, other people have had this happen.

It's probably just a bug just for Quick Attack (possibly just for that fight), nothing special. If you really want to know why Quick Attack misses, you'd have to rip the ROM open.
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Aworax
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Aworax » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:51 am

A bug? Ok makes sense, but I've never seen that before.
Sure it saves time but I was really confused after that.
luckytyphlosion wrote:If you really want to know why Quick Attack misses, you'd have to rip the ROM open.
Hehe I have no idea how to do that :oops:
It would be helpful if anyone could do that (anyone that know how this works).
I want to know if this is really a bug or 256 return :lol:

Aworax
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Aworax » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:42 pm

Double Post Kappa

It happend again :mrgreen: Now I believe this is really a bug.


But I have another question, because this happened to me too often in a run.
Sometimes (currently often) the heart gauge of croconaw goes not to 0 before or after the Cipher Peon Skrub fight. It is really annoying that I must reset because of that.
Is the heart gauge rng or is there a simple trick I don't know?

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Re: Need explanation

Post by Darcovian » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:13 am

as far as Ive been told depending on the nature the heart gauge degenerates at different rates, in terms of what rate the different natures degenerate Im not 100% sure someone with more knowledge may be able to answer that question better than I can.

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Zewing
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Zewing » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:30 pm

Aworax the rate at which the shadow gauge depletes is 100% based on nature. The specific nature will drop the shadow gauge differently depending on the actions taken, such as walking, calling, using cologne, etc.

I did research on this and basically came up with a list of natures that I would accept or reject.

UNRUNNABLE CROCONAW NATURES:

Lonely, Adamant, Docile, relaxed, impish, timid, jolly, modest, gentle, careful, sassy, brave, bashful, calm

RUNNABLE CROCONAW NATURES:

Quirky, Serious, Hardy, Naughty, Lax, hasty, naive, quiet, mild, rash, bold

You would have to look up the natures to see why I pick them, but keep note that + sp.atk natures take the longest of the runnable ones to be purified, but them being + sp.atk allows experience missed for certain parts of the game to not be that bad. Aside from that, these natures work best in a run since they offer no downside to attack, special attack. If you get a good nature (excludes rash mild and quiet), you should have them down 2 shadow gauge bars by the time Roller Boy Pike is over, if not the fight after that.

I recommend not resetting over natures like this unless you're going for a sub 4:30 IGT.
Is Pokemon an RPG?

Aworax
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Aworax » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:24 pm

Zewing PogChamp Kappa/

Thanks for the explanation.
If I'm correct that means that your
Zewing wrote:UNRUNNABLE CROCONAW NATURES
of course are bad for a run and even bad for the heart gauge, right?

Zewing wrote:If you get a good nature (excludes rash mild and quiet), you should have them down 2 shadow gauge bars by the time Roller Boy Pike is over, if not the fight after that.
Of course the two natures (rash, mild) are the best for croco. With the PokeGen I've "calulated" that the best stats that you can get with these natures and 31 Iv's:

Att. 62
Sp. Att. 53
Speed 49
However, the probability to get these stats + nature are really low.
Because of that I only run with these stats

Att. 55-62
Sp. Att. 45-53
Speed 45-49

The bigger problem is that you can't manipulate croco's stats (I've read that it is impossible to manipulate Colosseum and Gale of Darkness). So it is luck based what you get on croco's (and Espeon) stats.
On my newest run the gauge bar was, in the Pyrite Colosseum, two down (nature bold).
Zewing wrote:I recommend not resetting over natures like this unless you're going for a sub 4:30 IGT.
Sub 4:30 PAL is possible without rash and mild nature.

Edit: ^ I was thinking about RT :P

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Vincento341
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Vincento341 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:06 am

Zewing wrote: RUNNABLE CROCONAW NATURES:

Quirky, Serious, Hardy, Naughty, Lax, hasty, naive, quiet, mild, rash, bold
Is bold is really runnable (+def, -att) and the two neutral natures docile and bashful aren't runnable? I would have thought that any -attack nature would be un-runnable. I guess this would have something to do with purification rate, right?
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Aworax
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Aworax » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:53 am

Bold is runnable. Sounds weird but my newest run my Croconaw/Feraligatr have nature bold. And you can see how quick the shadow bar goes down.

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Zewing
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Re: Need explanation

Post by Zewing » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:32 am

Yeah, when I made these nature lists, there were 2 conditions I had no choice but to overcome.

Condition 1: How fast can it be purified?

This is crucial to know as if you can't purify croc by the time you get to Agate, you really can't do the run since Feraligatr is necessary (to go fast). This means you need to have lost 2 bars of shadow gauge as soon as possible in order to BEGIN to gather exp points for Croc (You get 0 experience points that go towards Shadow Pokemon until 2 bars have vanished).

Condition 2: Is the nature suitable for a Speed Run?

Basically, I assumed all neutral natures and + sp.atk natured croconaws are runnable. I've done a lot of runs with neutral natures and they can lead to really good times.

Why is minus attack not bad?

Believe it or not, minus attack is hardly worth resetting over. Croconaw has an 80% chance to crit with Shadow Rush, which has a huge base power, as well as croc having reallly good attack IV's. You probably will lose some damage ranges with minus attack, but that will only affect the run UNTIL you begin the Mt. Battle climb. At that point, you use 0 physical attack moves aside from Earthquake, which will do it's job quite easily.

As noted, +sp.atk natures actually come into conflict with condition 1, but these natures are still capable of getting sub 4:20 IGT and further (I have never done a full run with a optimal nature).

In conclusion, if your aim is to be able to complete a run without worrying about an underleveled croconaw, then you must absolutely have the shadow gauge down at the point I indicated (first first after roller boy pike is where I set my reset point, leeway can be given if all you need to do is like, call it once and it's past 2 bars).

I love to see people asking questions about colosseum. Just a quick note, but this purification process is as followed:

1. Entered a battle
2. Steps taken
3. Cologne
4. Call

Each nature ranges differently on each condition as to how well it can be purified. The list I selected had "BEST" for battle, the largest contributed to the shadow gauge, for certain natures. Bold is one of these natures I believe.
Is Pokemon an RPG?

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