Hidden Power in Emerald

Post Reply
User avatar
werster
Site Admin
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 am

Hidden Power in Emerald

Post by werster » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:06 am

Since you can grab your IVs pretty quickly by looking at your TID, might as well figure out what Hidden Powers would be worth it, since you can see that too. Made some calcs below, along with some rough timings

Only really considering Fighting, Rock, or Ice (maaaybe Electric, but I doubt it). Let me know if I missed anything/any Pokes

~20 seconds to get Secret Power
~8.5 to buy Hidden Power

~20 seconds to get Hidden Power at Fortree

~14 seconds to teach Hidden Power

Some calcs (assuming 25 IV Neutrals in both Attacks)

First set:

Delcatty:
HP Fight 52: 100% to 2HKO (Saves 4 secs)
HP Fight 62: 100% to KO after Mud Shot (Saves 5 secs)

Slakoth:
HP Fight 65: 100% to OHKO at +1 (Saves 4 secs)
HP Fight 66: 100% to OHKO after WG (Saves 5 secs and an X Att)

Vigoroth:
HP Fight 64: 99% to 2HKO (Saves 7 secs and an X Att)

Norman:
Vigoroth: (Since Spinda/Linoone will die to anything this does)
HP Fight 66: 100% to OHKO at +2
HP Fight 53: 100% to OHKO at +3
HP Fight 44: 100% to OHKO at +4

Slaking:
HP Fight 62: 99% to 2HKO at +4 (includes Sitrus)
HP Fight 70: 100% to 2HKO after a WG at +3 (includes Sitrus)
Lots of other shenanigans you can do here depending on your rolls from other attacks. 44 is when it starts to be more powerful than Mud Shot. This is really hard to calc because there are so many different options.

Carvanha 1:
HP Rock 50: 100% to OHKO (Saves Mud Shot miss)

Carvanha 2:
HP Rock 51: 100% to OHKO (Saves Mud Shot miss)

Carvanha 3:
HP Rock 54: 100% to OHKO (Saves Mud Shot miss)

Slugma:
HP Rock 40: Does more than Strength
HP Rock 54: 100% to OHKO at +2 [Double Harden] (Saves Mud Shot miss)

Grovyle:
Strength OHKOs at 78 Attack or more at +1 (Should also be doing this regularly lol. It's +nature 21+ IV)
HP Ice 59: 100% to OHKO at +3 [Does more than surf at 58] (Can save ~3 secs to make Mystic Water menu not needed until spinner manip, can make doing the unProtect manip possible)

Pelipper:
HP Elec 63: 100% to OHKO (Saves 6 secs-infinite time)
HP Elec 42: 100% to OHKO at +1 (Saves 0 secs-infinite time)
HP Rock 70: 56% to OHKO at +1 [This assumes 78 Attack as mentioned above] (Saves 6 secs-infinite time)
HP Rock 62: 100% to OHKO at +2 (Saves 6 secs-infinite time)
HP Rock 50: 100% to OHKO at +3 (Saves 0 secs-infinite time)

Second set:

Mt Pyre Carvanha:
HP Rock 45: 100% to OHKO (Saves Mud Shot miss)

Double Battle: Hard to calculate these as some depend on Castform as well, but it makes it less likely to lose Castform, get trolled by Xatu Damage rolls, and allows for some 3 turns (helps with Torrent strats too), e.g.

Elec: HP Swellow + SW Xatu, Surf + SW Xatu, HP Pelipper

Swellow:
HP Rock 57: 69% to OHKO
HP Ice 70: 37.5% to OHKO

Xatu:
HP Rock 40: Does more than Strength [based rounding]
HP Ice 49: Does more than Strength

Peliper:
HP Elec 41: 100% to OHKO (Saves 2-6 secs depending on Castform's Speed)

Fortree Tropius:
HP Fire 65: 87.5% to 2HKO
HP Rock 60: 98% to 2HKO (Saves 17 secs)
HP Ice 64: 75% to OHKO (Saves 24 secs)

Winona:
Tropius:
HP Rock 51: 98% to 2HKO (Protects from Perish song, which costs 33 secs)
HP Fire 65: 98% to 2HKO
HP Ice 30: 98% to 2HKO (Protects from Perish song, which costs 33 secs)
HP Ice 45: 100% to OHKO at +1 (Saves 5 secs)
HP Rock 70: 100% to OHKO at +1 (Saves 5 secs)

Altaria:
HP Rock 58: 100% to OHKO at +2 (Saves 11 secs)
HP Rock 46: 100% to OHKO at +3 (Saves 5 secs)
HP Dragon 70: 81% to OHKO at +3
HP Ice 44: 100% to OHKO at +2 (Saves 11 secs)
HP Ice 35: 100% to OHKO at +3 (Saves 5 secs)

Gyarados:
HP Rock 39: Does more than Strength (based rounding)
HP Rock 63: 75% to 2HKO (Saves 5 secs and probably a heal)
HP Elec 30: 100% to 2HKO
HP Elec 63: 100% to OHKO (Saves 11 secs and almost certainly a heal)

Archie's Sharpedo:
HP Elec 58: Does more than Torrent Surf [Assured kill at 94 Sp Att +1 whereas Surf isn't]
HP Elec 44: 100% to OHKO at +2 [Don't need torrent to OHKO anything]

Imo, I think Rock 57+ (get at Slateport) and Ice 45+ (get at Fortree) seem worthwhile, others do not. Obviously power can be lower the higher the Att stat.

User avatar
RXFADEZ
Pokémon Trainer
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Hidden Power in Emerald

Post by RXFADEZ » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:21 pm

Other than the low odds of getting the correct type and power HP this looks like it could work. Only issue I see is in Winona's Gym if you get Perish Song and don't have Rock Tomb to get rid of the Tropius then there could be issues (For fighting or electric).

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Hidden Power in Emerald

Post by Exarion » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:32 am

Werster mentioned on stream the possibility of skipping Rayquaza if you caught Marill and had a very high HP Ice. I did some rough routing of this, which I'll post here in case it somehow becomes useful (I doubt it's worth it, but tough to say at this point).

Skip Master Ball (saves 45 seconds)
Pick up EQ and teach: 20 seconds
Skip second trip to Sky Pillar (saves 115 seconds)
Teach Waterfall to Marill

Moveset: Strength/EQ/HP Ice/Surf

FIGHTS
Juan: X Attack, X Speed, Heal Powder, EQ x5
-----
Wally: X Spec, X Attack, (X Speed), HP, EQ x4
Hope: EQ
Shannon: Surf
Julie: Surf x2, HP
Edgar: HP, Surf x2
-----Enter E4 at ~45% HP-----
Sidney: X Special x2, Surf, HP x2, Surf x2
-----Heal to high Torrent to always get Protect-----
Phoebe: X Special x2, Surf x5
Glacia: X Attack x3, (X Speed), EQ x5
Drake: X Special, X Speed, HP x4, EQ x2
Champion: EQ, X Attack x5, X Speed, EQ, Strength, Strength x2, EQ x3 (this fight is fucking awful)

Extra turns: ~18*

*assumes HP Ice 70, and does not include healing HP during fights

Alternative strat: Get Ice Beam (just short of 2 minutes, IIRC), which makes Winona's gym easier, does more damage to Golbats/Crobats than Surf, and saves several turns in Victory Road and on the Elite Four. You could also go for YOLO freeze strats. :)
Last edited by Exarion on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

User avatar
Amoeba
Cooltrainer
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:26 am
Contact:

Re: Hidden Power in Emerald

Post by Amoeba » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:47 am

I feel like you'd need to hit the wailord early to nulify water spout's damage, or else he'll hit like a ton of bricks.
Though I think he could do that with blizzard anyway. Not sure about this idea, seems like there's potential to lose a ton of turns to healing.
~

Exarion
Cooltrainer
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Re: Hidden Power in Emerald

Post by Exarion » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:59 am

Amoeba wrote:I feel like you'd need to hit the wailord early to nulify water spout's damage, or else he'll hit like a ton of bricks.
Though I think he could do that with blizzard anyway. Not sure about this idea, seems like there's potential to lose a ton of turns to healing.
Yeah, it's probably way worse in practice than in theory. Perfect scenario should be faster than Rayquaza, but you'd probably lose a lot of runs to Champion, and there's plenty of opportunity to lose time elsewhere.
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/exarionu
Pokemon Red speedrunning guide: http://pastebin.com/CkVA5yvJ

Post Reply

Return to “Pokémon Emerald”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest