Emerald Spinnerless Routing

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Amoeba
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Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:49 am

Fair warning, what's written below is my splurge of thoughts written down, it might not be coherent, and there are probably mistakes because I'm not at my comp to test. Get me to clarify something if it isn't clear, and please point out mistakes~

So now that perfect spinner manipulation is a thing I've been thinking about the route, and how it can change. Emerald is routed mostly from a "this works fine if you've gone spinnerless, but the extra xp helps with ranges" sense, so I don't think the route is going to change that much, but its worth thinking about.

Initially, I've been thinking about which spinners to apply the new manip to (from here on I'll refer to it as bag manip. I know it can be done from other menus, but that name works nicely for now). Certain spinners can already be perfectly maniped with running, so they will want to remain as is. There is a case to be made for yoloing some spinners, and though I personally am against this idea (2.5 seconds is a small price to pay for guaranteed battle skips, imo) I've included them in the list for anyone else to consider. (Note: Some spinners, in my opinion, should never be yoloed, because of their run killing potential or massive time loss potential. I've also ignored any spinners that stay locked in position from spawn i.e. you can bike past)

Code: Select all

Bug Catcher Lyle (Petalburg Woods): Running manip
Bug Catcher Whatshisface (Petalburg Woods): Running manip
Karen (Route 116): Always Bag manip (Shroomish often wastes a ton of time, somtimes kills runs)
Youngster/Hiker Double (116): Always Bag manip (Individually not awful, but double fight is long and screws exp)
2nd Youngster/Hiker Double (116): Running manip (the movement is precise, possibly bag manip if you're not confident)
Youngster Timmy (110): Bag manip (Possible yolo, 2 turn fight if caught, extra xp is helpful)
Hiker Trent (South of Fiery Path): Bag manip (Possible yolo, 3 turn fight if caught)
Kindler/Aroma lady double (North of Fiery Path): Bag manip (fairly bad fights individually, horific as a double)
Cooltrainer Wilton: Running Manip
Picknicker Angelina: Bag Manip (Up to 4 turn fight)
Hiker Brice: Bag Manip (Possible yolo, you're at full mach bike speed when you come across him, 2 turn fight if caught)
Bird Keeper Chester (Before weather institute): Bag Manip (fight can go badly with rock tomb, or waste pp with strength)
Team Aqua Grunt (Weather Institute): Bag Manip (possible yolo, 3 turn fight if caught)
Bird Keeper Colin (After steven gives devon scope): Bag Manip (Possible yolo, 2-3 turn fight)
Beauty Jessica (Before Safari Zone): Bag Manip (Possible yolo, 3 turn fight)
Cooltrainer Marcel (Before lillycove): Bag Manip both times
Cooltrainer Kristen (Before lillycove): Bag Manip both times
Swimmer Grace (After aqua base): Bag Manip (possible yolo, 2-3 turn fight if caught)
Aqua Grunt (Seafloor cavern): Bag Manip twice (possible yolo, 2 bag manips is 5 seconds, 1 turn fight if caught)
Cooltrainer Halle (Victory Road): Running Manip (Bag manip potentially if nervous/on a good run/because running manip is precise)
Next thought is how we'll deal with extra exp around Roxanne. Skip youngster strats are basically worthless now, considering that they bank on your average route 116 getting at least a couple of encounters, and half the time hitting a spinner. We also know that the "early evo" extra xp is very helpful (~160 extra xp (kill any 3 encounters on 116) gets you lvl16 and marshtomp from the first museum fight), as it gives you some level ups in key places (19 for grovyle is the main one, and I think it gives you 28 at flannery's torkoal. If it doesn't we should really look at reliable ways to get this, the 27 range is a bastard).
In terms of extra exp obtainable around roxanne: Always hit the first youngster in the gym for water gun, and I'm sure we should continue hitting the 2nd youngster for the near 300 extra xp. However, because we're guaranteed to not hit spinners in route 116, the extra 160 xp is often very useful, and we're now unlikely to get it on route 116 (repel strats are relatively common and ruin any hope of killing extra encounters, and 3 killable encounters is somewhat rare on a good 116 time) I reckon we should look at getting it somewhere else, more consistently. The 2 options I can think of are the hiker in roxanne's gym (50sec battle, 300xp) or killing arons/geodudes in granite cave. The former is likely far far more consistent, but the latter would likely be faster in the ideal scenario (not sure on the xp gain from arons, lvl12s might give 160, which would be awesome, but I doubt it).

And my other thought is switching menus/repels to points where we would bag manip. I've listed the repel locations, and potentially where we could shift repels or menus to:

Code: Select all

Repel 1: Before Petalburg Woods. No bag manip close, leave as is.
Repel 2: At some point in Route 116, depending on each runner's route. Can now be done during Karen or doubles Bag Manip.
[Optional] Repel 3: Route 116 repel strats. Do at 2nd Karen Bag manip if you have the lvl7, or when you catch one if you don't have it at that point.
Repel 4+5: Granite Cave, no bag manips near.
Repel 6: Route 110, after pokefan fights. -could- be moved to Timmy bag manip menu, but you risk about 8 or so tiles of encounters.
Repel 7: In rusturf tunnel, no bag manip near.
Repel 8: Patch of grass before Fiery Grass, no bag manip close enough. (Could leave until trent but you risk the entire grass patch)
Repel 9: Ash path before Fallabor, no bag manip close.
Repel 10: Before Meteor Falls (skipped if no fly slave), no bag manip near.
Super Repel 1: In meteor falls, no bag manip near.
S.Repel 2: Before Flannery, to cover through route 110 later. Already sits in heal menu.
S.Repel 3: Heading up to weather institute, possibly on the chester bag manip but you risk surf and grass encounters.
S.Repel 4: Just before Fortree, no bag manip near.
S.Repel 5: After bridge on the way to lillycove, just behind the bug maniac. Could be delayed until Jessica bag manip, risks 5 grass tiles of encounters.
S.Repel 6: On the way from lillycove to mt.pyre, currently sat in a large menu already. 
S.Repel 7+8: In Magma hideout, no bag manip near.
S.Repel 9: After Aqua Hideout, possibly during Swimmer bag manip, but you risk a lot of surf tiles repelless.
Basically none of the Max Repels are near any of the final 2 spinners.
Menus wise, the large menu after getting fly (teach fly, shock wave, remove mystic water, attach to marshtomp, move castform) can wait until the lillycove spinner bag manips, but that's all I can think of right now. I imagine there are more, but its hard to remember it all.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Sinstar » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:56 am

I'm not going to do any detailed routing or anything, but I'll just make a small point I was thinking about. In gen 3 opening the start menu takes very little time, most of the time in opening the pokemon menu is opening the second part of the menu, It may be worth splitting larger menus over spinners where they can, an example in the sidequests in fire red would be using a super repel before surfing out to Kindle Road, but leaving the mandatory option change until the spinner you have to pass shortly after, you'd lose a bit of time having to open and close the start menu once more, but not the full time opening the pokemon menu or something, idk how often you could split menus up like this, but I think It would be worth it.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by roushmore917 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:42 pm

Corrections/clarifications:
Bug Catcher Whatshisface shall be known as James

Repelling before Flannery might not be the best choice (im sure you're talking right before the battle), but I do my repelling when i use teleport (and switch slot 1 with marshtomp), but I'm sure you'll still have the right number of steps (i rarely heal in front of Flannery anyways, might just make this a run-by-run basis suggestion)

Repelling after Fortree: Suggestion, just do it for Jessica, risk 1 (walking) grass tile if we truly don't need to persim for Sydney, just skip that pickup

Easy way of dealing with the (~210) Exp. before the Museum Fights: Battle Hiker Clark (320$ can buy you an extra regular potion to help torrent manip later, possible extra repel), then one level 7 poke (the tunnel has a good chance (45%) of a level 7 or 8 Whismur), so possibility not using a repel before repel-abra strats (again, personal preference, run-by-run basis)

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:12 pm

roushmore917 wrote: Repelling before Flannery might not be the best choice (im sure you're talking right before the battle), but I do my repelling when i use teleport (and switch slot 1 with marshtomp), but I'm sure you'll still have the right number of steps (i rarely heal in front of Flannery anyways, might just make this a run-by-run basis suggestion)

Repelling after Fortree: Suggestion, just do it for Jessica, risk 1 (walking) grass tile if we truly don't need to persim for Sydney, just skip that pickup

Easy way of dealing with the (~210) Exp. before the Museum Fights: Battle Hiker Clark (320$ can buy you an extra regular potion to help torrent manip later, possible extra repel), then one level 7 poke (the tunnel has a good chance (45%) of a level 7 or 8 Whismur), so possibility not using a repel before repel-abra strats (again, personal preference, run-by-run basis)
Repelling before flannery covers you for route 110, I've been doing it for months, and it saves frames over doing it in the teleport menu because you don't have to go into the bag again (teleport menu is "Pokemon" menu only, no other items. You often heal before flannery, so s.repel makes sense there)
Skipping the persim pickup near jessica only applies if you're skipping the persim on sydney and doing exarion's new archie strat (or just skipping another persim), but yeah repelling at jessica makes sense in that scenario.
It's 210 exp for early evo? How does 3 extra killed encounters cover this? Also Hiker Clark+encounter would be slower than the hiker in the gym, and apart from skipping getting the repel on 116 (4-5 secs max) there's no advantage to skipping the standard used repel on 116.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:31 pm

Awesome topic. I like "bag manip" better than "menu manip," which is what I'd been calling it. Here's how I'm planning to handle each spinner pass, in order of appearance:

Lyle: 1-tile running manip
James: 1-tile running manip
Karen: Bag manip + teach Rock Tomb
Karen: Bag manip + Repel if applicable
Johnson: Encounter or bag manip (getting an encounter accomplishes the same thing as opening the bag)
Clark: Don't manip or wait for him (fast fight + useful experience)
Johnson: 1-tile running manip
Timmy: 2-tile running manip (experience is useful + he has another chance to pass you)
Trent: Bag manip (maybe run-into-bike manip if I become consistent at the movement)
Bryant/Shayla: Bag manip
Wilton: Bike manip
Angelina: Bag manip + Repel (you can make first one wear off before her if you got an early flier)
Angelina: Bag manip (maybe run-into bike manip if I get good)
Brice: Bag manip
Ethan: Bag manip + heal/Elixer (must delay Super Repel until after Flannery)
Timmy: YOLO bike
Chester: Bag manip
Aqua Grunt 1: Bag manip (below him if necessary to avoid long wait)
Colin: Run-into-bike manip
Jessica: Run-into bike manip
Marcel: Bag manip + switch Castform and remove Mystic Water
Cristin: Run-into bike manip
Cristin: Bag manip + use Super Repel and teach HM02
Marcel: Bag manip (maybe run-into bike manip if I get good)
Brice: Bag manip + use Super Repel
Grace: Just wait (you move fast enough to always pass her with decent reaction time)
Aqua Grunt 2: 1-tile running manip
Aqua Grunt 2: YOLO bike

The Super Repel before second-pass Brice replaces the one used upon entering the Magma Hideout.

The problem with repelling before Jessica is that you can't get the lake Rare Candy unless you YOLO the water. This costs like 3 seconds on average, which is more than efficient bag manip saves. You can skip the lake candy and just get the one on Mt. Pyre, which is faster anyway, but I think we should get both candies now, because this makes the Winona and Archie fights faster and more consistent, among other experience benefits.

The early-game experience situation sucks. I jotted down some key experience marks here: http://pastebin.com/gk35dQvA. Fighting the Hiker in Roxanne's gym gives you only one additional experience benefit: Lv. 31 for Slaking, which is rarely useful. You'd probably kill an encounter in addition to fighting him so as to get Lv. 18 for the second Minun, but this also means you get Lv. 15 early on Route 116, severely limiting your ability to damage Taillows. I think going for 183 experience (evo after first Aqua) is still the right play. Clark and Granite Cave are available as backup if good encounters aren't biting.
Sinstar wrote:I'm not going to do any detailed routing or anything, but I'll just make a small point I was thinking about. In gen 3 opening the start menu takes very little time, most of the time in opening the pokemon menu is opening the second part of the menu, It may be worth splitting larger menus over spinners where they can, an example in the sidequests in fire red would be using a super repel before surfing out to Kindle Road, but leaving the mandatory option change until the spinner you have to pass shortly after, you'd lose a bit of time having to open and close the start menu once more, but not the full time opening the pokemon menu or something, idk how often you could split menus up like this, but I think It would be worth it.
Good point. This can be accomplished with the Lilycove spinners on the way back, as noted in my list above.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:54 pm

Weird, I was going to say the same thing for Grace, but I'd presumed I'd just been lucky a fair amount and not that she's reactable. Repelling around Jessica is going to be up in the air until we're sure on extra rare candy/winona/archie etc strats. However, if I'm understanding your pastebin correctly, we'll need the extra level to be swampert for winona's gym anyway, so extra rare candy looks pretty set, outside of yolo-ed spinners.
183 exp is basically any 3 encounters, as long as no more than one is a lvl6 pooch, if my maths is okay? So that's fairly standard now anyway. And I guess if we get the lvl7 for repel strats before any killed encounters that clark+1 does it, as roush said. Not as awful as I thought, though the 3 killed encounters before repel strats would be sweeter.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:33 pm

You get Lv. 34 after the Mt. Pyre double battle with no spinners, so you can just use the Petalburg and Mt. Pyre candies to reach Lv. 36 before Winona's gym. I would like to reach Lv. 37, but none of the options seem great:

- Get the desert Rare Candy (~20s) and YOLO five tiles of grass on Route 110 (Repel wears off on tile before Timmy, which is nice). This could be used to gain an extra level in Norman's gym, but then you'd need to hit a spinner to get Lv. 35 at the summit. So the candy likely wouldn't be used until the summit.
- Get the lake Rare Candy (~20s) and YOLO 1 tile of grass and 15 tiles of water, repelling before Jessica
- Get the lake Rare Candy (~20s) and YOLO 7 tiles of grass on Mt. Pyre

Also, just thought of a crazy idea: Get the desert candy, and use it early for benefits in Norman's gym, the Weather Institute and Rival 3. Get the Petalburg and lake candies, and use them after Rival 3 to reach Lv. 36 for all of Mt. Pyre. This will barely give you Lv. 37 for Tropius. Let Tropius kill you, then finish it with Castform. Revive Swampert into Torrent with the Rare Candy while reaching Lv. 38, and use a Potion (and maybe an Oran) to reach a safe HP for Swablu/Pelipper/Crobat.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:09 pm

Would be good, but higher levels in norman's gym tend to be worse. You hit most of the gym fights (and norman's slaking) into heal ranges, where as normal spinnerless levels just keeps them out.
This is obviously rough, and can be worked around with water gun, but higher levels certainly aren't an advantage.
Your other option could be to buy 10 super repels and just use an extra through the fortree>lillycove section, to cover getting the lake rare candy. Honestly though yoloing the lake isn't bad at all, the encounter rate is piss low.
Also, your crazy strat sounds amazing but you've used 4 candies there, though I'd recommend skipping the really early candy and saving that until later for the revive into torrent strat.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by werster » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:21 am

Does anyone know what causes it to rain on Route 119? I'm not sure what the factor is (I know it didn't happen the last run I did) and just thought you could use it

If you end up skipping the bed to keep torrent the whole way, assuming it's raining on Rival 3 you can go X Spd, 2 X Spec and Surf everything to ohko Pelipper. It needs either Lvl 33 with 23+ IV (761 Exp off) or +Sp Att nature with 24+ IV to always OHKO Grovyle, you could always substitute if you aren't going to do that (would need early Rare Candy to get 33 obviously, still tossing up options there)

That however, is calc'd without Mystic Water. You could equip it beforehand. In which case you need either

Level 32: 51 Sp Att (Neutral 24+ or Plus nature 12+)
Level 33: 48 Sp Att (Neutral 11+ or Plus nature anything)

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:56 am

I don't think I've ever seen rain on 119, but that's an amazing idea if we could get it consistently. And if not we could lead with castform and rain dance maybe? Considering that you save (on average) a turn on the pelliper and you're keeping your torrent it wouldn't be the worst timeloss to switch (doubt the slugma could kill it quickly enough).
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:06 pm

I'm not sure what causes rain, and I've never seen it on Route 119 in a run, but the extra time loss from 5 "It is raining/rain continues to fall" text boxes and 3 super-effective/not very effective text boxes probably negates the time save. The fight is trivial anyway other than Protect trolling, which you can't prevent unless in kill range (which is dangerous HP for the doubles fight atop Mt. Pyre unless early evo, which requires 970 experience).
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:09 am

Any ideas on how to handle the Vigoroth before Norman on not great Attack? You need 31 IV neutral or a +Atk nature to have a decent chance at 3-shotting it at Lv. 29. You can't tell if you have 30 or 31 IV neutral until Lv. 29, coincidentally. So maybe every neutral should fight the third trainer in Roxanne's gym and some encounters for early evolution? You'd get these benefits from 465 total experience:

16 for the first Carvanha
18 for the second Minun
20 for Wingull (small chance to 1-shot it with Tackle)
21 for Zigzagoon (for Torrent range)
30 for Vigoroth
31 for Slaking

EDIT: Removed inaccurate experience marks past 465.

If you hit Timmy, you'd get these benefits:

20 for Grovyle (can skip X Speed with 23+IV and +Speed nature; lower +Speeds face a risky speedtie)
30 for Slakoth
34 for Mt. Pyre double battle (so can be Swampert for it)

I'm missing some experience marks, and I'll probably add them later.
Last edited by Exarion on Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by werster » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:31 am

I seem to always get the rain on emulator, and not on console. Could it have to do with having a dry battery?

Also dumping this here, just some stats I've been working on trying to find the right combo of candies http://pastebin.com/hMhPBUPt

I like 1 to 30 before Brawly, 2 after rival 3 to get Swampert, and 1 after Tropius to get 38. Takes all 4, might have to end up switching based on IVs. The extra level for Norman's gym is really nice (Slakoth/Vigoroth can be bitches at 29, and for Norman I like the idea of going (heal) Mud Shot, Rock Tomb (Countered into Torrent) Mud Shot to kill), means you don't have to Mud Shot Makuhita, get 33 for Mightyena so you can Torrent Surf to kill, and another level for Rival 3 (which I still need to time strats), and Swampert for Mt Pyre Double, which saves some time, especially if Castform doesn't have good Sp Att

Tate and Liza Speed IVs are listed because if you beat Lunatone/Solrock, you can go without the X Speed (tying to Claydol I'd still use it, splitting the middle is best, being faster than Claydol you can still make work too and get the 4 turn, but needs HP manip before the fight)

Edit: Timed Rival 3, and rain is slower (so if we do figure out what causes that, we want it to not happen) - I'm still trying to OHKO Pelipper though, as the candy route I really like would have Torrent all the way through after Norman, and you could manip Pelipper to not Protect at all on this fight (and then have Swampert before Double, so won't die there)

You can go 3 X Spec w/ Mystic Water and OHKO all, but this needs +Sp Att nature and an IV of 19 or more to get Groyvle 100%
You can go 3 X Att and then Rock Tomb Pelipper, needs 71 Attack to always get the range (neutral 26+)

I don't like the attack one due to missing, but if you can catch the Sp Att one, it's worth it imo (obviously only if you have the health to work with). +Sp Att nature with 19+ is also conveniently exactly what you need to always OHKO Mightyena at 33 with Torrent

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:53 am

How are you planning to get the 295 experience for Machop? The best way I could think of was to get enough experience for early Lv. 16, but that already gets you 30 for Vigoroth with no candies, 33 for Mightyena with 1 candy and 37 for Winona's gym with 3 candies (total). Assuming you split experience vs. Tropius, you then get all the levels you need for the late game on most Speed IVs (40 for Crobat, 43 for Lunatone, 45 for Crobat/Sharpedo). The extra candy gets a few nice bonuses, like 45 for the true double battle, but you also lose 4.5 seconds by trying to learn Protect at Lv. 46, which you don't reach with 2-3 candies.

I do like 3 X Spec on Rival 3, although the Sp. Atk required for that strat is good enough to be Lv. 41/42 for T&L and still use only 1 X Special, which makes getting more than 2 Rare Candies potentially unnecessary.
Last edited by Exarion on Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by werster » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:13 am

295 could happen in a lot of ways. Clark is 147, And I'd consider always fighting him, maybe at least not even wait for him to spin away (I really like Marshtomp before second Aqua Grunt anyway). The rest can come from Wilds, which isn't too bad when you consider there's 3 potential places you can get encounters if you get Desert Candy

Route 116: (Abras/Slaves)
Whismur: 6: 58 Exp
Nincada: 6: 55 Exp | 7: 65 Exp
Poochyena: 6: 47 Exp | 7: 55 Exp | 8: 62 Exp
Taillow: 6: 50 Exp | 7: 59 Exp | 8: 67 Exp
Skitty: 7: 65 Exp | 8: 74 Exp

Route 114: (Swablu hunting)
Lotad: 15: 94 Exp | 100 Exp
Seviper: 15: 353 Exp | 17: 400 Exp

Route 110: (Way back, can also catch Wingull here if needed)
Oddish: 13: 118 Exp
Poochyena: 12: 94 Exp
Wingull: 12: 92 Exp
Electrike: 12: 178 Exp | 13: 198 Exp
Plusle/Minun: 12: 205 Exp | 13: 222 Exp
Gulpin: 12: 128 Exp | 13: 139 Exp

Also in my calcs for T&L, to ensure OHKO on Lunatone with 1 X Spec and Torrent, you need Lvl 43 with 16+ IV and +Sp Att nature (or 30+ at 42). Am I calculating that wrong somehow?

Also with the idea for the 4th candy (using it to 38 after Tropius kills to always have consistent Torrent health), you just fall short of Protect by 87 Experience

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:38 am

Calculations seem fine. I think risking the 1/16 damage range against Lunatone (122-144) is worth it, considering one fewer X Special saves a lot of time. If using 2, we might want to Surf before using the second one (2 X Spec + regular Surf hits Claydol into heal range).

Forgot about Route 110 and 114 experience, and I didn't actually calculate Protect, so I'm glad to see it works out nicely. So if you fall short of the experience, skip the lake candy and use 3 candies atop Mt. Pyre to reach Lv. 37? That's the strat I like right now, although I imagine 4 candies works better on some Speed IVs.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:00 pm

Haven't read everything but I saw something about torrent from norman. Just thought id mention that if you have torrent for shelky, her mightyena is a bastard of a range, and I believe it will go for bite if it can kill, so it would be necessary to pot/ oran to high torrent most likely, if you're going for that strat.
Edit: nevermind, just read the early candy bits. This is what I get for posting without reading everything
as an aside, I can't wait to get home and read this stuff, new ideas are really exciting. Bloody work getting in the way of going fast.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:28 pm

Its really annoying that 295 is the magic number to get 29 for brawly, because the hiker in roxanne's gym gives 294. Still potentially viable though, as it would guarantee marsh for museum grunt 2 and would only take any extra encounter to get 29 (30 with candy) for brawly.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:21 pm

Okay, in an attempt to collect all of the new stuff you guys have come up with, I'm going to list the proposed new route differences compared to the old route. Tell me if I miss anything/anything is wrong.

Petalburg Mart: 2 Potions, 3 Repels, 2 X Speeds, 2 X Attacks (One extra x speed, one less repel. Could also do 1/4/2/2 and get beach potion)
Either battle the Hiker in roxanne's gym plus an extra encounter, or Hiker on route 116 plus extra encounters for a total of 295 extra xp.
Slateport Mart: SELL Steel Wing TM, 4 Super Potions, 3-5 Repels
Collect the HP Up from Rusturf tunnel just after getting Strength.
Falabor Mart: 2 Escape Ropes, 9 Super Repels, - Buy 2 Escape Ropes, 9 Super Repels, 8 (or 11) X Specials, 4 X Speeds, 15 (or 13) X Attacks, 1 Defend, 2 Guard Spec (total x specs/x atks up to personal preference)
After Herb Shop, collect desert Rare Candy, and use to get Lvl.30 before Brawly.
[Optional: Rock Tomb on Slaking strats to get torrent, and skip weather institute heal if so. (collect elixer below rival 3)]
Get Lake Rare Candy, before Mt.Pyre.
Don't get Persim berries here.
Rare Candy twice during large menu just before/just after Lillycove to get Lvl.36.
Lead with swampert on tropius in Fortree gym, take death, finish with castform.
Rare Candy to revive and put swamp in torrent.
Winona: X Atk, Strength, Strength, Strength, X Atk, X Atk, X Speed, X Spec, Mud Shot, Strength, Surf, Rock Tomb
Standard torrent strats from here on.
Mossdeep Mart: No Differences
Alternative 1 X Spec TnL strats on +Sp.Atk natures with 12 @ lvl6.
Newer Archie strats (different depending on HP, see archie thread).

Might have messed up the winona strat or something, not sure. Fairly sure though I got the basic jist of it down. As an aside, fairly sure Rash/Mild are now preferable to Lonely/Naughty.
~

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:57 pm

Winona doesn't require an X Special, and it only requires an X Speed with <24 IV neutral. Also, use 4 X Attacks and Strength Altaria instead of 3 and Rock Tomb.

Otherwise looks good. I think some Mudkips can skip 1-2 Rare Candies (for example, 14 Attack at 5 guarantees that Altaria dies to Strength at +4 when you're Lv. 37), but this is a solid route to work from.
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:05 am

I just timed the Hiker fight: about 42 seconds, but that includes a level-up and some lag that doesn't count toward IGT, so it's probably about 37 seconds. This seems like a good play on most IV combinations, as it guarantees Marshtomp for the second Aqua Grunt and gives you a decent chance at Marshtomp for the first one. And you only need to kill one more encounter to get Lv. 29 for Brawly, and if you kill it on Route 116, you get Lv. 18 for the second Minun.

Also, the $320 can get you an extra Potion in Slateport, which aids late-game Torrent manip. You also might be able to do some more clever shopping (3 Repels/2 X Spd/3 Atk in Petalburg, 5 Potions/2 Supers/5 Repels in Slateport?).
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werster
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by werster » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:37 am

Just relooked at the Torrent Bed skip w/ 4 candies, you can actually use the second one at Level 33 --> 34, which is conveniently at a Bag Manip for the weather institute spinner, so you get 34 for Mightyena and Rival 3. This means the required IVs for that strat are 15+ w/ Sp Att+ nature or 29+ at neutral, a fair bit more common.

(I would also do this at Speed IVs of 11 or under to get speed marks on Carvanha/Mightyena/Grovyle)

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Amoeba » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:53 am

Thought you needed the x spec on winona to guarantee the one shot on skarmory? Or does having 38 do that for you? And yeah I think I prefer the roxanne hiker, saves having to fuck around with extra encounters. What's the 3rd X Atk at petalburg for?

Werster, doesn't doing that lose your ability to get 36 after rival 3? And what were the sp.atk requirements to do torrent bed skip? There are so many threads on the go I have no idea where to look Kappa
~

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werster
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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by werster » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:56 am

No you still get 35 after Rival 3 with one to spare (the lake one), I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

The requirements WERE 19+ IV w/ Sp Att+ nature only. It also helps with ranges on Slugma (Strength at +1 is more hittable, so is Surf at +2) and the range on Mightyena unless you already have the 57 Sp Att required.

Third X Att at Petalburg would be for Wattson I'm assuming, OHKO that fucking Manectric, the range is better to OHKO at +1 then 2HKO at 0.

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Re: Emerald Spinnerless Routing

Post by Exarion » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:05 am

Skarmory is guaranteed at Lv. 38 with 21+ IV neutral (82% at 16 IV neutral).

The X Attack strat on Wattson depends on your IV; unfortunately, you don't know much about your IV when you reach Petalburg. With 29-31 IV neutral (51 Attack at Lv. 23), it's like 95% to 2HKO and 85% to OHKO with an X Attack, but with 25-28 IV (50 Attack), it's about 50% to 2HKO and 85% to OHKO with an X Attack. Ranges aside, using an X Attack is preferable because you take less damage (give Electrike an extra turn rather than Manectric), you don't see the speedfall animation, you don't trigger the Sitrus Berry, you save a Mud Shot PP and you have one fewer chance to miss Mud Shot.
Last edited by Exarion on Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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