Torrent strats for Archie

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Exarion
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Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:38 am

Based on my testing, Archie's Crobat always:
1) Uses Air Cutter or Wing Attack when you're below 50% HP
2) Uses a Super Potion when it's below ~60% HP

This led me to discover a potentially useful strat. If you have 20+ IV Speed and enter the fight in Torrent but out of Wing Attack kill range (not really in your control, but possible), you can always win the fight in 6 turns if you don't get critical'd.

FROM 20-33% HP:
Turn 1: Surf (OHKO)
Turn 2: Surf (take Wing Attack/Air Cutter damage)
Turn 3: X Special (Super Potion to ~50% HP)
Turn 4: X Speed (Super Potion to ~90% HP)
Turn 5: Surf (OHKO)
Turn 6: Surf (OHKO)

Mystic Water can be equipped so as to guarantee a OHKO on Sharpedo. You don't need a Persim because Crobat can't use Confuse Ray.

Also, I propose using a Guard Spec. on Mightyena if you're not in Torrent. It favors using Scary Face unless you're slower or in Take Down kill range, and it will continue favoring Scary Face even after a Guard Spec. You can set up an X Speed and 2 X Specials while it uses Scary Face, ensuring OHKOs on Crobat and Sharpedo (latter may require Mystic Water) And if Mightyena you're below 50% HP after turn 2, you can simply use the X Speed on Crobat, let it hit you into Torrent, and then sweep without the second X Special.

FROM 50-100% HP:
Turn 1: Guard Spec. (Scary Face)
Turn 2: X Special (Scary Face)
Turn 3: X Special (Scary Face)
Turn 4: X Speed (Scary Face)
Turn 5: Surf
Turn 6: Surf
Turn 7: Surf

FROM 34-49% HP:
Turn 1: Guard Spec. (Scary Face)
Turn 2: X Special (Scary Face)
Turn 3: Surf
Turn 4: X Speed (take Wing Attack/Air Cutter damage)
Turn 5: Surf
Turn 6: Surf

There's still a chance Mightyena uses Swagger, but that's rare (about 10% per turn in my testing), and it requires only one extra turn to use a Heal Powder.

With this strat and the alternate Winona strat, we'd save two Persims, which would allow the Route 121 Persims to be skipped.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Exarion on Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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roushmore917
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by roushmore917 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:40 pm

Yeah, don't we use 7 persims on rayquaza?

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:29 pm

roushmore917 wrote:Yeah, don't we use 7 persims on rayquaza?
Juan, Wally, Phoebe, Glacia, Drake, Champ?
No one say persim for sidney or I'll slap you~
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roushmore917
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by roushmore917 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:29 pm

this is news for me, when did we stop using persims for sydney?
I always use a persim in victory road when i do my last repel... so it makes little time difference

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:33 pm

Waterfall always kills mightyena, and is guaranteed to kill absol around 215(?) sp.atk and above, and its a favourable range for basically every sp.atk. From there outrage as standard.
I mean there is a case for still persim-ing it, but there are far better places to use it, all of them being for swampert. Or in this case never picking them up at all.
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by roushmore917 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:46 pm

My argument against that is that the Mystic Water is very much useful for getting better ranges on BOTH TnL and the TrueDouble fight with Steven, Tabitha, and Maxie.

If you want to use the Mystic Water for both of those fights, then you'd have to take it OFF after using a persim, which can waste precious seconds of time.

Also, think of how much time that doing straight outrages saves over having to open up the fight menu (yes, its minuscule, but overall gotta save them frames)

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Amoeba » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:07 pm

Mystic water only helps hit ranges on bad sp.atk, and there's no extra gain from having it on with good sp.atk. The loss of frames from one extra move input is negated by the seconds saved by never attaching the persim. Regardless, persimless sydney is more than feasible, and would be considered for this strat.
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Exarion » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:40 pm

Equipping a Persim for Sidney is ideal but not necessary at all. If you equipped one, you'd still use Waterfall on Mightyena and Absol (unless below-average Sp. Atk), hoping for a 3-turn Outrage that would allow you to keep the Persim for Phoebe (and thus save opening the menu).

Depending on the situation, I might prefer equipping the Persim for Shelly and then going Persim-less on Juan. The perfect Juan fight without Persim (25%) is faster than the perfect Juan fight with Persim, since you save a Persim menu. And Persim-less Juan can only be a problem if you have really bad Attack AND get Amnesia, or if you hit yourself in confusion multiple times.
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werster
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by werster » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:31 am

Amoeba wrote:Waterfall always kills mightyena, and is guaranteed to kill absol around 215(?) sp.atk and above, and its a favourable range for basically every sp.atk. From there outrage as standard.
Pretty sure the quota is 237 Sp Att to be 100%, and thats' neutral 27+ IV

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by RXFADEZ » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:09 am

Realistically, what are the odds that Quaza will hit 237 on level up?
Probably best to have a spare Persim.
OR you could always grab the Lum Berry? That heals confusion right?

EDIT: Nevermind, I forget that the Lum Berry is only a 1/24 chance XD

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Amoeba » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:06 am

Ohh wow, that's worse than I thought. Maybe I have it wrong in my head and its favourable from 215.
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Exarion » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:01 pm

It's favorable from 218 and guaranteed from 237.
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:08 pm

I timed the Guard Spec. Archie strats today, and they seemed to be 1-2 seconds faster than current strats (0-1 X Spec). The main effect seems to be outside of the battle: You lose 3-4 seconds by having an extra X Speed and Guard Spec. in your inventory, and you gain 11 seconds by skipping the Route 121 Persims and not equipping one for Archie. So you save about 9 seconds, but you need $1750 more in Fallarbor. This shouldn't be a problem with HP Up strats. The main drawback is that you can't afford as many healing items in Lavaridge, but buying 7/4 there shouldn't be a problem unless you get really bad luck.

Also, the extra X Specials and X Speed can be used elsewhere in a pinch:
- Norman to waste a turn without burning an Energy Root
- Norman to recover after a Spinda crit
- T&L in various unlucky situations
- Wallace if Wailord crits you
- Wallace to ensure Milotic range on horrible Sp. Atk

X Speed strats on Archie require using 1-2 extra Rare Candies and having 21+ IV neutral Sp. Atk and 18+ IV neutral Speed (or no extra Rare Candies and 17+ IV +Sp. Atk and 21+ IV neutral Speed).

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werster
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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by werster » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:46 pm

15 X Atts? I've got 13, where else are you using them?

Maxie: 1 | Flannery: 1 | Slakoth: 1 | Norman: 4 | Rival 3: 2 | Winona: 4

And then I'm buying 11 X Specials as the default so you have extras (death/hidden power ice), and also just because buying that many is faster. Everything else is exactly what I've got too

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Re: Torrent strats for Archie

Post by Exarion » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:57 pm

I use the same 13 as you if everything goes perfectly. I buy two backups for several reasons:

- It helps to use a second one when you die + Revive on Torkoal. Your other attacks can put it into heal range.
- I like using one on the Vigoroth before Norman to avoid heal range problems. X Attack + MS + Strength never risks heal range, but MS+Strength x2 does. If either of the first two attacks criticals, Vigoroth might live in heal range.
- MS+X Attack+MS can kill Slaking if the first roll isn't too low or high (Sitrus Berry doesn't activate)
- It's easier to recover if you die to Spinda (can set up to +4 again and not have to take an extra mart if you use 1 X Atk strat on Winona).
- Swablu Perish Song wastes an X Attack, and if you don't have an extra, you need to risk Rock Tomb on Altaria.

I might change my buy depending on how I approach getting experience. Not sure how hard I should try to get 295/447/465 experience and how likely I'll be to get it even if I kill every wild I see.
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