Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:13 am

OK, I was just referring to Crystal, as I don't know Gold nearly as well. If it's an odd number of steps, you could always pass Joyce one tile higher/to the left, which would only cost an extra step (hers) if she hit you.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:05 am

I was getting the Super Repel to end on the correct tile for Joyce without any extra movement. Not sure who is having the 1-off error.
werster wrote:Calciums, yeah I didn't look at the damage ranges completely, but there are a lot of really dangerous ones that it at least helps with. Golbat (rival), Golbat (Radio 2) and Dragonite (Lance) are the three off the top of my head that if you miss can easily end up costing you 20+ seconds rather than just 6-7, if you just just one more of them it's worth it imo

Also remember using Vitamins does increase your happiness, so Return would do slightly more. This is relevant (I think, didn't map out happiness perfectly for Gold) for Kingdra, Kingler, and Slowbro
Probably should have looked at more than 1 fight, because the damage formula is so finnicky. 2 Calciums affect those 3 critical fights the following way (for 12/13/14/15 Spc DVs):

Code: Select all

L30 Golbat:     64.10% ->  97.44%
                64.10% ->  97.44%
                87.18% ->  97.44%
                97.44% -> 100.00%

L36 Golbat:     20.51% ->  41.03%
                20.51% ->  41.03%
                30.77% ->  41.03%
                41.03% ->  41.03%

L50 Dragonite:  66.67% ->  66.67%
                66.67% ->  79.49%
                66.67% ->  79.49%
                79.49% ->  92.31%
Didn't bother checking all the Radio Tower fights, but when you factor in the other [possible] damage ranges -- L30 Porygon/Koffing, L32 Meganium, L23 Muk, L24 Muk, L32 Vileplume, L37 Dragonair (x3), L45 Gengar, L58 Exeggutor (think that's all of them) -- it actually will probably come out to be the right play. The +4 for happiness is a nice bonus as well as you alluded to.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by werster » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:36 pm

I'm pretty sure Level 32 Arbok is also a range. Is Level 44 Crobat a range in Gold? I know it was in Crystal, but you're level 50 in Gold where you weren't in Crystal, so not exactly sure. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, so long as we agree it's worth it. I'll start doing runs soon, hopefully learn something new from that too

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:31 pm

Yeah, L32 Arbok is; somehow missed typing it despite being listed as a range in the pastebin. Also, the Victory Road rival fight has a 90%+ range at 12 Spc DV: L36 Golbat without an X Special (~92.3%) or L38 Meganium (~94.9%) with one. L44 Crobat is always a 1HKO (should be L51 for it I believe). So that's at least 16 Pokemon it impacts; seems pretty clearly worth it.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:29 pm

Last relevant thing with Calciums (I think) -- the damage ranges for the Koffing (IP) and Porygon (Surf):

Code: Select all

L30 Porygon:    30.77% ->  38.46%
                30.77% ->  51.28%
                30.77% ->  58.97%
                38.46% ->  58.97%

L30 Koffing:    69.23% ->  84.62%
                69.23% ->  84.62%
                76.92% -> 100.00%
                84.62% -> 100.00%
So yeah, probably should have looked at more than just 1 fight at one specific DV before drawing conclusions. Based on this I would say Ice Punching the Koffing and Surfing the Porygon, as originally suggested, is the way to go. I haven't completely worked out Mahogany PP mgmt (really haven't looked at anything pre-Radio Tower in over a week), but if going with the Elixir rather than the Center, I would try to leave a Surf for Vance. That way, if you have to Surf a Poliwhirl (as I'm doing anyway), you can sub in an Ice Punch on Vance to keep your PP full going into Radio Tower.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by werster » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:50 am

I'm using Strength on Vance on my PP route. I would Bite a Poliwhirl instead of Surf, barely less damage, no Not Very Text and chance to flinch to avoid Hypnosis? The better option in my opinion, especially when I use exactly 10 Surfs/Strengths in my route before the Elixer

Also I realised last night, if Vulpix burns you with Ember, then I suppose you -have- the get Azalea Full heal, so I added that to my notes too. Def agree with Ice Punching Koffing and Surinfg Porygon seeing those ranges. Another thing that should be noted, is if your DV is 14/15, given Koffings are 100%, you should Ice Punch others, not just the last one. Save 1 Surf to give you a chance to Surf the Weezing to go for the OHKO range there, and also could save a Surf for Rivals Golbat if you have the Bitter Berry to save a Super effective text (Can't think of any other places where extra surfs would help)

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:51 am

Not sure this applies in Gold, but it definitely does in Crystal: Since X Acc is better than Guard Spec. for Umbreon anyway, it's not a bad idea to buy a second X Acc for Koga if the money works out. Surf PP can be a problem if you miss on Ariados (Karen's Gengar can live and use Spite), you're always giving Muk a turn now, and missing on Crobat can cause several problems, especially when you're Lv. 49 in Crystal and can miss the range. Missing is especially problematic if you get hit twice (or crit once) on Will, which is much more likely when Slowbro gets two turns and you have the Pink Bow rather than the Bitter Berry for Xatu.

Credit to Keizaron for this one.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:47 am

Did my final bits of routing today. I was getting some inconsistent results with the Super Repel, but 2 tiles before the Blackthorn Gym door seemed to be where the Repel would run out on the right tile. I don't know what the hell I did yesterday, but looks like you need to waste 5 tiles for Joyce. I get the odd tile out of the way by walking out the right tile of the heal house.

I was not finding Elixir to be faster, though it is a weird thing to measure. I also got some Weepinbell encounters on my first step into the grass, which is annoying (can't couple Super Repel with Bike safely). I could certainly be convinced that it is indeed faster, but for now I'm using the Goldenrod Center.

As a result of not getting the Elixir, I am only buying 11 Super Repels in Olivine (which is conveniently only 1 input). Also buying 4 Super Potions and 3 Paralyz Heals; this leaves enough money to buy 2 X Accs in Goldenrod. If you have 1 last through Karen, it could prove useful on Sabrina if you miss the Espeon range and get Sand-Attacked. Could be worth considering going to 3 Super Potions and 2 Paralyz Heals so you could get a 3rd X Acc, but will have to see how runs play out first.

I mapped out happiness and took another look at PP throughout the run. With above average attack, there are some decent opportunities to avoid super effective text by using Return: at 13 DV, the L36 Rapidash before Victory Road is 92.3% to be 1HKO by Return (97.4% at 14-15 DV); at 10-11 DV, the L37 Exeggutor in Erika's gym is 92.3% (12+ DV = 1HKO); at 10-11 DV, the L37 Sandslash in Brock's gym is 94.9% (12+ DV = 1HKO). Everything else seemed pretty clear cut one way or the other to me, but it's possible I missed something.

***EDIT: Feraligatr levels for reference: L48 vs L36 Rapidash, L55 vs L37 Exeggutor, L59 vs L37 Sandslash.
werster wrote:I'm using Strength on Vance on my PP route. I would Bite a Poliwhirl instead of Surf, barely less damage, no Not Very Text and chance to flinch to avoid Hypnosis? The better option in my opinion, especially when I use exactly 10 Surfs/Strengths in my route before the Elixer

Also I realised last night, if Vulpix burns you with Ember, then I suppose you -have- the get Azalea Full heal, so I added that to my notes too. Def agree with Ice Punching Koffing and Surinfg Porygon seeing those ranges. Another thing that should be noted, is if your DV is 14/15, given Koffings are 100%, you should Ice Punch others, not just the last one. Save 1 Surf to give you a chance to Surf the Weezing to go for the OHKO range there, and also could save a Surf for Rivals Golbat if you have the Bitter Berry to save a Super effective text (Can't think of any other places where extra surfs would help)
All good notes. I liked bringing Poliwhirl's HP down a bit lower since I only ever have Poke Balls, but Bite could be the better option. The Surf/Ice Punch PP on high special is something I hadn't thought of, but is obviously correct. Some more fun notes on the 2 Calciums: the L23 Muk, L32 Arbok, L37 Dragonairs, and L45 Gengar are all guaranteed 1HKOs.

I went through Blackthorn way too many times trying to figure out that Super Repel, and only ran into one instance where I ran out of PP. I'm pretty sure I forgot to equip the Pink Bow that time, otherwise Kingdra may not have caused issues. So you could consider not even picking up the Lighthouse Ether, and instead going with the Viridian Forest Max Ether, but it doesn't seem like you need any more than 10 extra PP in Kanto.

After the Heal House, it's hard to really have bad PP management; looked at your notes and there are a few differences, but nothing that looks wrong. I came to like the X Spc on the Rival 4 fight as well. One thing that I'm guessing is a typo: it looks like you have Return + Ice Punch for the L50 Dragonite, but obviously you should be Ice Punching turn 1.

Tried to find ways to skip the remaining spinners, but couldn't find any. I think the route might actually be approaching stability.
Last edited by entrpntr on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Sinstar » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:49 am

Exarion wrote:Not sure this applies in Gold, but it definitely does in Crystal: Since X Acc is better than Guard Spec. for Umbreon anyway, it's not a bad idea to buy a second X Acc for Koga if the money works out. Surf PP can be a problem if you miss on Ariados (Karen's Gengar can live and use Spite), you're always giving Muk a turn now, and missing on Crobat can cause several problems, especially when you're Lv. 49 in Crystal and can miss the range. Missing is especially problematic if you get hit twice (or crit once) on Will, which is much more likely when Slowbro gets two turns and you have the Pink Bow rather than the Bitter Berry for Xatu.

Credit to Keizaron for this one.
I've always been buying multiple x accs in gold since I had the money, never had to use it though so this probably is more significant in crystal.


In terms of the gold route, the pp seems fine from Tower to Heal House since you generally have about 3 spare returns, the pp pre radio tower is a lot tighter if you use the elixir, but there are no real ways to miss like in the other segment so it definitely does look like we have something good now.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Ryziken » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:29 pm

Something I thought worth pointing out at the risk of sounding stupid (hey I'm just a Cyndaquil runner, what do I know about Totodile route hur hur hurrr), but I've seen a lot of runs lately using a Guard Spec for Karen, and there's been some discussion about it here as well. But if you look at some of my runs, I rely on having my HP low enough to where Umbreon ONLY uses Faint Attack. This isn't difficult to set up thanks to Bruno's high-power attacks, so I'm wondering if Feraligatr might be able to accomplish the same thing, and not need to Guard Spec on Karen. Between taking Psychic from Xatu and maybe a Cross Chop from Machamp, w/e as long as it gets your health down below half, and don't heal before Karen, that should suffice.

This isn't a guarantee, of course, since AI likes to be weird sometimes, but it is highly likely Umbreon will only go for Faint Attack if your health is low. I should mention, though, this is based on the assumption that it doesn't matter the species (Typhlosion or Feraligatr), but only on the remaining HP %. At the very least, it saves a turn and some money, so it could be worth testing out.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Sinstar » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:01 pm

Ryziken wrote:Something I thought worth pointing out at the risk of sounding stupid (hey I'm just a Cyndaquil runner, what do I know about Totodile route hur hur hurrr), but I've seen a lot of runs lately using a Guard Spec for Karen, and there's been some discussion about it here as well. But if you look at some of my runs, I rely on having my HP low enough to where Umbreon ONLY uses Faint Attack. This isn't difficult to set up thanks to Bruno's high-power attacks, so I'm wondering if Feraligatr might be able to accomplish the same thing, and not need to Guard Spec on Karen. Between taking Psychic from Xatu and maybe a Cross Chop from Machamp, w/e as long as it gets your health down below half, and don't heal before Karen, that should suffice.

This isn't a guarantee, of course, since AI likes to be weird sometimes, but it is highly likely Umbreon will only go for Faint Attack if your health is low. I should mention, though, this is based on the assumption that it doesn't matter the species (Typhlosion or Feraligatr), but only on the remaining HP %. At the very least, it saves a turn and some money, so it could be worth testing out.

It's nice to have an x acc as backup but this is generally what I've been going for in runs, and it worked out exactly that way in my run earlier not healing before Karen if you can avoid it at all is definitely the way to go.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:20 am

Do we know if having higher Special Defense causes Pikachu to use Thunder less? This is an important factor in whether we should use Calcium strats. I'm unsure about Calcium strats in Crystal for these reasons:

1. We can afford to X Special on Rival 4 and 5, which lessens the importance of hitting Special damage ranges (and a Return range on RIval 4's Sneasel).
2. The range on Koga's Crobat is less of a threat if we X Acc after Ariados uses Double Team.
3. We should be hitting fewer spinners now, which means we're more likely to be Lv. 52 for Lance's Lv. 50 Dragonite. In this case, even with good Special and Calcium(s), I'm in favor of leading with Return/Strength and finishing with Ice Punch to avoid the heal.
4. Having good Special Defense can actually be bad for Blue's Exeggutor. You can still miss the range, and because we take so little damage in Kanto now, Feraligatr might be out of range for Solarbeam to kill. So Exeggutor might use Sunny Day, which allows Blue to heal it and adds a bunch of text boxes. I'm considering using 3 X Attacks on this fight (2-3 on Pidgeot, 0-1 on Exeggutor, depending on HP and Special DV), which would make everything a guaranteed OHKO, eliminate heal ranges on Exeggutor and Gyarados, eliminate the chance of taking a lot of damage from Gyarados, save three super-effective text boxes, and remove X Specials from your inventory after Karen. The X Attack strat would make Calciums useless for Blue.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Keizaron » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:02 am

Exarion wrote:Having good Special Defense can actually be bad for Blue's Exeggutor. You can still miss the range, and because we take so little damage in Kanto now, Feraligatr might be out of range for Solarbeam to kill. So Exeggutor might use Sunny Day, which allows Blue to heal it and adds a bunch of text boxes. I'm considering using 3 X Attacks on this fight (2-3 on Pidgeot, 0-1 on Exeggutor, depending on HP and Special DV), which would make everything a guaranteed OHKO, eliminate heal ranges on Exeggutor and Gyarados, eliminate the chance of taking a lot of damage from Gyarados, save three super-effective text boxes, and remove X Specials from your inventory after Karen. The X Attack strat would make Calciums useless for Blue.
Just want to say that Exeggutor range is pure ass and I want it to guaranteed die. This would overall cost us what, 5-15 seconds (definite rough estimate)? All the SE text boxes gone, less scrolling because no X Special anymore, one additional turn total (two if you need to X Speed because fuck Alakazam's speed, thus the 15 second guess for X Speed). My last three runs, Blue has literally been the hardest fight for the dumbest reasons.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:11 am

Exarion wrote:Do we know if having higher Special Defense causes Pikachu to use Thunder less? This is an important factor in whether we should use Calcium strats. I'm unsure about Calcium strats in Crystal for these reasons:

...

4. Having good Special Defense can actually be bad for Blue's Exeggutor. You can still miss the range, and because we take so little damage in Kanto now, Feraligatr might be out of range for Solarbeam to kill. So Exeggutor might use Sunny Day, which allows Blue to heal it and adds a bunch of text boxes. I'm considering using 3 X Attacks on this fight (2-3 on Pidgeot, 0-1 on Exeggutor, depending on HP and Special DV), which would make everything a guaranteed OHKO, eliminate heal ranges on Exeggutor and Gyarados, eliminate the chance of taking a lot of damage from Gyarados, save three super-effective text boxes, and remove X Specials from your inventory after Karen. The X Attack strat would make Calciums useless for Blue.
Unsure about the other factors, so only responding to this point. After X Spc (+ X Spd) on Pidgeot, you should know if Exeggutor will be in Solarbeam range or not. If not, and if you buy extra X items, you could consider using a 2nd X Special instead of Ice Punching Pidgeot. That way Pidgeot can be killed with Surf and Exeggutor will be 1-hit by Ice Punch.

Blue is definitely a hard fight to figure out; 3 X Attacks is an interesting idea though.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:53 am

entrpntr wrote:Unsure about the other factors, so only responding to this point. After X Spc (+ X Spd) on Pidgeot, you should know if Exeggutor will be in Solarbeam range or not. If not, and if you buy extra X items, you could consider using a 2nd X Special instead of Ice Punching Pidgeot. That way Pidgeot can be killed with Surf and Exeggutor will be 1-hit by Ice Punch.

Blue is definitely a hard fight to figure out; 3 X Attacks is an interesting idea though.
Wouldn't that be the same as 3 X Attacks, but two more super-effective text boxes and more opportunity for Gyarados to troll you?

With 2 X Specials:

Turn 1: X Spec
Turn 2: X Spec
Turn 3: Surf (saves 0.85s)
Turn 4: IP
Turn 5: Surf
Turn 6: Return
Turn 7: Return (2HKO Gyara; possible 2 turns added if miss Gyara range or heal)
Turn 8: Surf
Turn 9: IP

With 3 X Attacks:

Turn 1: X Atk
Turn 2: X Atk
Turn 3: X Atk (use on Exeggutor if in Solarbeam range)
Turn 4: Return (saves 0.85s)
Turn 5: Return (saves 0.85s)
Turn 6: Return
Turn 7: Return (1HKO Gyara)
Turn 8: Return (saves 0.85s)
Turn 9: Surf
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:13 am

Yeah so a 2nd X Spc would make no sense; didn't realize it was same number of turns. Looks like 3 X Atks (+1 X Spd still, if needed) is a pretty nice play then. I think that's the way to go, since it's only wasting 1 turn over alternatives in a reasonably perfect fight (i.e. barring crits), and avoids SE text/Gyarados getting a turn. Funny that one of the main factors dictating routing decisions is how long the HP bar animations are.

***EDIT: Think you're a level lower in Crystal, but in Gold (L61) you can consider just using 2 X Atks with 9+ DV Atk (I believe Sinstar already does this); 9-10 DV makes Gyarados 92.3% to die, 11 DV is 97.4%, 12+ is guaranteed. You'd still use the third if Exeggutor was not in Solarbeam range; Exeggutor is a harder range to hit, but might as well go for it if you know he's Solarbeaming. You'll get L62 for Arcanine, which means he'll die on 2 X Atk too.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:37 am

entrpntr wrote:Yeah so a 2nd X Spc would make no sense; didn't realize it was same number of turns. Looks like 3 X Atks (+1 X Spd still, if needed) is a pretty nice play then. I think that's the way to go, since it's only wasting 1 turn over alternatives in a reasonably perfect fight (i.e. barring crits), and avoids SE text/Gyarados getting a turn. Funny that one of the main factors dictating routing decisions is how long the HP bar animations are.

***EDIT: Think you're a level lower in Crystal, but in Gold (L61) you can consider just using 2 X Atks with 9+ DV Atk (I believe Sinstar already does this); 9-10 DV makes Gyarados 92.3% to die, 11 DV is 97.4%, 12+ is guaranteed. You'd still use the third if Exeggutor was not in Solarbeam range; Exeggutor is a harder range to hit, but might as well go for it if you know he's Solarbeaming. You'll get L62 for Arcanine, which means he'll die on 2 X Atk too.
Yeah, 2 X Atks seems better with good Attack, although you'd need it to be a bit higher in Crystal (L60 for Exeggutor, L60/61 for Gyarados, L61 for Arcanine).
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:44 am

So in runs the past couple of days I have seen movement in Misty's gym that was foreign to me. Made a quick video comparing movement I've seen with movement I do (and have seen in older runs): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/460 ... eanGym.mp4. I've timed it with the Machine Part still there and get the same results. Unless someone sees something I'm missing, I recommend putting my suggested moves on Misty.

***EDIT: I am dumb, you can Surf to Misty from the bottom to avoid turning/bonking, comes out pretty much equal with the single Surf method.

With that out of the way, just one more thing to add for now:
entrpntr wrote:I'd like to see the Gold time pushed down
Thanks for the 3:21s today fellas, though it sucks about the luck towards the end.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Sinstar » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:06 am

I love how thee's been like 3 seconds of routing improvements since this morning when I started runs. Sadly my run didn't have bad enough luck for this to make me want to do more runs though, for now at least. I'll definitely keep looking at the route and crystal certainly still has some way to go.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by werster » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:09 am

I was about to make the exact same post. I haven't even encoded my damn run and I can't watch it now because I'll be so mad at how I get the Machine Part now haha.

On a lighter note, routing as a group like this is so fun and thanks to everyone who has posted here for advancing gen 2 a whole load in a space of a couple weeks <3

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:34 am

Check my edit, double Surf seems fine if you actually do it right. Giving out a lot of bad info today, so you'll probably wanna double check it yourself.

And yeah, I came into this thread thinking I might have a perfect Gold route in place (lol nope). Definitely had more fun since this thread started than I had routing stuff in seclusion.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by entrpntr » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:24 am

Exarion wrote:Do we know if having higher Special Defense causes Pikachu to use Thunder less? This is an important factor in whether we should use Calcium strats. I'm unsure about Calcium strats in Crystal for these reasons: ...
Exarion mentioned it was ~17 seconds to buy/use 2 Calciums (I had been thinking it was more like 12 seconds), and that he didn't think the damage ranges alone were worth it. I made a comprehensive list of damage ranges for Calciums in Gold (didn't bother calculating impact on Return): http://pastebin.com/i57dTjjB. Looks like on average, you'll hit ~2 more damage ranges per run (and less than this for higher special). So unless they do impact Pikachu AI, I'm back to believing they are not worth it in Gold.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Keizaron » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:44 am

entrpntr wrote:
Exarion wrote:Do we know if having higher Special Defense causes Pikachu to use Thunder less? This is an important factor in whether we should use Calcium strats. I'm unsure about Calcium strats in Crystal for these reasons: ...
Exarion mentioned it was ~17 seconds to buy/use 2 Calciums (I had been thinking it was more like 12 seconds), and that he didn't think the damage ranges alone were worth it. I made a comprehensive list of damage ranges for Calciums in Gold (didn't bother calculating impact on Return): http://pastebin.com/i57dTjjB. Looks like on average, you'll hit ~2 more damage ranges per run (and less than this for higher special). So unless they do impact Pikachu AI, I'm back to believing they are not worth it in Gold.
They are worth it it Crystal. I demand it to be so.

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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by Exarion » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:14 am

I think Calcium strats can be done even with Etherless in Crystal, but they'd only be worth it with 12-13 DV Special. You'd just have to leave yourself more money at the Olivine Mart and probably buy only 8-9 X Attacks and 1 X Acc (or no X Accs and 2 Guard Spec.) if you hit no spinners. Then you could buy 2 Calciums and use them before Radio Tower 1.
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Re: Major Time Save in Gold (and other Route Notes)

Post by werster » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:33 am

entrpntr wrote:Exarion mentioned it was ~17 seconds to buy/use 2 Calciums (I had been thinking it was more like 12 seconds), and that he didn't think the damage ranges alone were worth it. I made a comprehensive list of damage ranges for Calciums in Gold (didn't bother calculating impact on Return): http://pastebin.com/i57dTjjB. Looks like on average, you'll hit ~2 more damage ranges per run (and less than this for higher special). So unless they do impact Pikachu AI, I'm back to believing they are not worth it in Gold.
I disagree with this math, if it is 17 seconds, that seems like it's worth it to me. If you say on average 2 turns, chances are that saves you more than 17 seconds I'd imagine. The turns themselves might only be around 13, but the compound possibilities from that (confuse possibility from Golbats, Poison from Weezing/Muks/Meganium/Arbok, Paralysis from Arbok/Vileplume, Accuracy from Weezing/Koffing, Heal from Dragonite, you having to heal from either Meganium) surely make it mathematically averages to be more than 17 seconds saved, just one of those would be worth a hell of a lot more than another 4 seconds.

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