Leaderboard Purity Issue

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MarcusTEllis
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Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by MarcusTEllis » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:16 pm

How's it going Yellow Community? So, I'm not a Yellow runner but I recently came across a video of a time on the Yellow leaderboard that looks like it was segmented and I wanted to get all your opinions on it. Theres been a lot of talk lately about how we can't trust the leaderboards and such so why not try and clean out the runs that are obviously faked?

Anyway, here's the run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfr6GQiFDo
go to 56:45 and watch for about 15 seconds, it should be fairly obvious.

P.S. and before anyone says anything, no this is not an MBM witch hunt, its just a run that seems clearly segmented and should be taken down out of respect for our leaderboards and pokemon speed running in general.

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by jpaintrain » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:48 pm

Pokemaniac throws a punch, pokemaniac gen 1 misses

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Winds
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by Winds » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:50 pm

Kappa

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by luckytyphlosion » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:51 pm

It could be some lag, but I don't think it matters much that he's cheating, since the run was done on VBA, which is banned for Gen 1-2 games.
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MarcusTEllis
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by MarcusTEllis » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:25 am

So can we remove the time then?

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spitfire
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by spitfire » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:32 am

luckytyphlosion wrote:It could be some lag, but I don't think it matters much that he's cheating, since the run was done on VBA, which is banned for Gen 1-2 games.
Then why the hell is his time been up there for a whole year...

you do realise the leaderboards are meaningless when a time that is illegitimate for a whole different reason stands on the leaderboards in 3rd place for over a year..

GG psr GG..

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by Exarion » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:44 am

Is VBA banned, though? I haven't heard an announcement recently, and I'm pretty sure it was allowed before all of the recent emulator discussion.
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MarcusTEllis
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by MarcusTEllis » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:32 am

Even if that emu is banned, the run it still invalid because emulators don't lag like that. It's a splice.

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by MarcusTEllis » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Thanks whoever did it, i applaud you :P

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by Amoeba » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:59 pm

The "splice" is probably (I'd personally say almost definitely) an issue with the recording/ recording software. Its very unlikely someone would do such a poor job of splicing, if this was a splice.
VBA is indeed banned for GB/GBC games because it doesn't emulate it correctly, so the time does/did want removing.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by G_heinz » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:46 pm

Amoeba wrote:The "splice" is probably (I'd personally say almost definitely) an issue with the recording/ recording software. Its very unlikely someone would do such a poor job of splicing, if this was a splice.
VBA is indeed banned for GB/GBC games because it doesn't emulate it correctly, so the time does/did want removing.
if this is a serious response, no one better ask for "real proof" of cheating ever again.

astounding.

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:11 pm

mexericanbassmonkey has removed the run from youtube. Do we need anymore proof? He didn't even bother to defend it, just removed the vid, out of sight, out of mind. What use are rules if we hold no one accountable? I normally don't try to stir shit up, but this is ridiculous. He could have easily explained it if it was a problem with recording. The fact that he removed it makes it pretty clear that he's guilty. And if he spliced that run, what's to say he didn't splice any of his other runs? For instance, the contended Sapphire 2:02, which still stands as the emulated WR? Granted, it's no longer an official WR, but is there gonna be no punishment for posted cheated runs?

BRB TASing a new gold glitched wr, since apparently no one gives a fuck.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by Amoeba » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:39 pm

G_Heinz, recording issues are a common occurrence, see: all the frame drops in my emerald pb, werster's emerald pb etc.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:46 pm

To be fair moobs, that was issues with your internet, the Yellow run contested was not livestreamed (correct me if I'm wrong) and thus should not have experienced the issues you did. Also, that wasn't a skip in the video, it was a restart.

And no matter what at this point, he's good as guilty cuz he took the run down with no comment.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by G_heinz » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:00 am

Amoeba wrote:G_Heinz, recording issues are a common occurrence, see: all the frame drops in my emerald pb, werster's emerald pb etc.
i guess i should have been more clear.

i'm sure they're quite the common occurrence. i watched your whole emerald run and have heard similar testimony from others. my point is that, first, what ace said--it wasn't dropped frames, it was a restarted clip--second, there is enough other suspicion surrounding him as a runner (in my eyes, of course, but also in the eyes of many others) that there's much less room for "benefit of the doubt"-type interpretation.

in other words: if you hear hoofbeats running up behind you and you don't find yourself on the african savannah, think HORSE, not zebra.

EDIT: not to mention, while it doesn't constitute proof in the same vein as a literal security camera vid that documents him poring over his computer meticulously editing the video of a forged run, removing the vid from youtube is even more suspicious behavior. there comes a point where you don't let a murderer walk free just because there were no firsthand witnesses.

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:47 am

I think comparing MBM to a murderer is going a little too far, but heinz has a point. MBM took the vid down, that's all the proof I need, and his silence on the whole matter just casts more suspicion. I could care less about the leaderboards now, but I just have one last thing I want to say:

If someone cheats one run, why should ANY of their runs be considered legitimate? For those who might accuse me of this, this isn't an MBM witch hunt. This isn't me just bitching about an unbeatable Sapphire run (I'm under no illusions, my time in Sapphire is 3:13, I ain't competing for wr), this is about a run that is clearly cheated and people completely ignoring it. Say what you want about the video skip being a sign or not, he took it down when he saw this thread, which means that he didn't want anyone looking at that skip.

I don't care if every other run he did was legitimate, this one clearly isn't. And that discredits him as a runner.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by kopratic » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:07 pm

I don't think MBM taking the video down proves anything. Honestly, I think he took it down just so people would get off his case. From what I've read, it looked like the nay-sayers already had it set in their mind that he was cheating; no amount of explanation from MBM would counter that. Frankly, I think he realized this and took the video down in order to just let the situation die down.
Did MBM cheat? I'd like to think he didn't. It's been a while since I've seen the run, though. I'll have to have a watch again.

Also, the video is still on YouTube, so....yeah. It hasn't been taken down, or it was put back up?
EDIT; My bad! I was thinking of the wrong video. FailFish
Last edited by kopratic on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:52 am

I would just like to mention, before people start accusing me of this, I am not rooted in my opinion. If MBM would respond reasonably to our questions, I would probably be just fine with whatever he said. It's the fact that he's said nothing on this matter that bothers me.

However, I do understand why he wouldn't respond, in a way. After the bullshit he had to put up with about his sapphire run, which has no "concrete" evidence against it as opposed to this one which actually has a skip in the video, whether that be by splice or by recording issue.

This isn't so much an accusation on the time based on the strats he used (I know very little about yellow) or the rng he got as much as it is a question of whether or not the skip was a splice. I just want to hear a response from him.

I realize that I may have come off as somewhat of a stubborn asshole in my last few posts, but that's been due only to his lack of communication on the matter.

I would just like to politely ask MBM, if he's watching this thread, to please respond. I'm not gonna go on a rampage after you man, I just wanna know why A)there's a skip in the video and B)you took the video down. Any answer would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by kopratic » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:02 am

Another simpler explanation might be that he took the video down because, like someone else mentioned, VBA is banned for Gens 1 & 2 due to improper emulation {or something like that}. Regardless of whether or not the video was legitimate, it would not have counted in the leaderboards.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, aren't all times for the leaderboards supposed to be console runs now? That's what I got at reading the front page of PSR.

On an unrelated note, this has almost made me want to learn Yellow glitchless. Almost. Kappa

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:11 am

And that's a perfectly valid reason Kopratic. I just would like MBM to at least come forward, even if it's to say the same thing.

Also, Emu times are counted as invalid for WR only. You're still free to post emu times on the leaderboards, assuming you don't use any of the emu advantages (speedup, etc).
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by kopratic » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:14 am

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for the information!

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by xxxAceBlade » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:29 am

It's more of a general consensus rather than a hardset rule. Emu times are invalid for WR because of how easily they can be cheated but there really is no point cheating a run that isn't a world record, so no one is gonna tell you that you CAN'T post up your 1:58 in red that was done on an emu.
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by kopratic » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:08 am

Well, that's good. I guess now I can finally publish my 20 minute Platinum glitchless run. Kappa

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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by Amoeba » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:27 pm

xxxAceBlade wrote:Also, Emu times are counted as invalid for WR only. You're still free to post emu times on the leaderboards, assuming you don't use any of the emu advantages (speedup, etc).
But VBA isn't allowed for GBC games, as it emulates it incorrectly~
~

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G_heinz
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Re: Leaderboard Purity Issue

Post by G_heinz » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:33 pm

moobs is correct in saying that VBA is banned for gens 1-2 for legitimate reasons, and so for that reason alone the run should have been DQ'd long ago. still doesn't speak to the runner's behavior, however.

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