Still at it - Some more questions

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exit1337
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Still at it - Some more questions

Post by exit1337 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:51 pm

Hello there,
this is my first post and with it I'd like to shortly introduce myself before I'm actually going on-topic. You may or may not know me as a Super Mario World hacker from Germany, I've been modding this game for roughly ten years by now, but besides SMW I'm also digging the Pokemon series (except Gen 6). After having watched gunner's run on AGDQ earlier this year, I got interest in trying to run Pokemon Red myself as well.

I've made some runs, all without success and haven't played beyond Misty until now. I'm taking the Nidoran route and trying to lean on this run (1:49 by Exarion)

So here are a couple of question I couldn't find an answer for in the wiki:

1. Misty's Starmie was faster than my Nidoking. Do I have to have certain DV's, could there be a speed tie between Starmie and Nido? I'm wondering because Exarion's Nido was faster (15 DV speed). My Nido DV's in speed were probably between 0 and 5

2. Which Squirtle stats are acceptable on Lv 5?

3. Do I have to catch Paras? What if I don't encounter a Paras in Mt. Moon and caught a Pidgey instead of a Spearow on Route 3?
Last edited by exit1337 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Decon082
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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by Decon082 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:58 pm

1 - If you have 13+ DV speed, you'll outspeed Starmie assuming you follow the current exp route. 12 DV ties, and 11 DV can tie in certain situations. The majority of Nidos will be slower than Starmie.

2 - Squirtle's stats don't matter much. Bad attack (10 at level 6) means you'll probably lose a turn on Weedle (and turns on Bulbasaur). Bad speed (10 at level 6) means you'll sometimes be unable to run from Level 4 Rattata and level 5 Weedle. Bad Special (13 at level 8) means you'll have to 3-shot Geodude with Bubble. The Special stat is the only thing you should worry about as it makes Brock more difficult (about 45% chance to die if Onix uses Bide on the turn you Bubble and you won't 2-shot), but you can use any Squirtle.

3 - If you don't get Paras, your options are catching an Oddish on the route before Vermilion, or trading Spearow for Dux before Surge. Oddish is 35% so it's not the best backup, but if you have Pidgey and no Paras you don't have any other option.
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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by Exarion » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:10 pm

11 DV Speed always ties Starmie in Red.
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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by Keizaron » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:36 pm

Friendly reminder that a lot of these questions can be answered if you look around on the wiki. This is a very helpful and information guide for new players.

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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by exit1337 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:10 am

Thank you very much. I had not come across that information guide before.
I'm also trying to figure out DSum maniupulation. It seems the only thing I need to do is to lean on the Nido chart and my probability of catching it will become higher. If the 2nd Pokemon I encouter is also no Nido and let's say, a Spearow L3, I would just focus on the Spearow L3 on that chart right? (2 out 6 in 12 out)
Since I apparently have no question left, I try to improve my splits.

Edit: When buying something in the market, for example 7 Pokeballs in the beginning, is there another way to do this fast? Currently I'm mashing up until I'm at 7 Pokeballs.

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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by Exarion » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:43 pm

That's the right way to do DSum, yes.

Mashing is the only way to buy fast. I use a GameCube controller and switch to my right hand when buying 7+ of an item. Keyboard users usually have an easier time.
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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by exit1337 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:47 pm

All right I'm getting more into this, the splits are getting better and I almost know the routes and strats by heart by now (up to Celadon City). I have two more questions until here.

There's one problem I encountered a few times in the Vermillion City gym. After getting the correct first can and there's "only one correct second can" after the first, that second can was actually a false one. Like for example the first correct can was the bottom right can, but the can above it was actually false. Any ideas? What if I actually mess up, do I start at the can to the bottom left again, then the bottom middle one and so on?

Secondly and less important, how exactly does the Raticate strat work against the rival in S.S.Anne? According to this guide, it actually says that for both LV 26 AND 27 and also independent of your defense DV, you bubble beam between HP 26-54 and otherwise use Thrash!?
Thinking about it, I would bubble beam with cheap Attack and good Special and Thrash otherwise, no?

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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by eddaket » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:21 pm

exit1337 wrote:There's one problem I encountered a few times in the Vermillion City gym. After getting the correct first can and there's "only one correct second can" after the first, that second can was actually a false one. Like for example the first correct can was the bottom right can, but the can above it was actually false. Any ideas? What if I actually mess up, do I start at the can to the bottom left again, then the bottom middle one and so on?
For this, the other can it can be is the top left can. There's no way to know which one it is. If you mess up and pick the wrong one, you just want to keep checking cans until you find another first can, and then search for the second one. You've probably seen this image before, but:

Image

For example if you check the bottom left can and it has a switch, there's a 50% chance the second switch is in the can to the right. The other 50% of the time it's in the top left can. This is true for every can, including the top left one. It's a little confusing, but it can be really funny looking to have the first AND second switch be in that top left can.

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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by mccully95 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:31 pm

When there is one can being pointed to by the arrow in the picture, that can is only 50% to be the 2nd can (with 50% chance of the 2nd can being top left). It's not guaranteed.

I think the rat dies in 2 hits even with bad special and always dies to thrash in 1 hit. You don't thrash the raticate normally because you would have to risk the 4-turn thrash on Ivysaur, unless you're yoloing in red bar. As a beginning runner, you should potion if you're in red bar for the Raticate and almost always use bubblebeam on it.

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Re: New runner - Some questions

Post by Amoeba » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:44 am

Not entirely true mccully, the chance of a can being a 2nd can depends on the number of cans. For instance, bottom-left, bottom-right, top-left, top-right and the two middle row "First Cans" all have 2 possible "Second Cans", either the one's that that picture point to, or top left. However the top-middle and bottom-middle have three other cans, plus top-left, that could be the second can, so there's only a 25% chance of choosing the right one.
~

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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by exit1337 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:23 pm

Hello guys,

I've watched the awesome run at SGDQ recently, great job ;)

I'm still practicing sometimes during my spare time and get some good times every now and then, but there's still a couple of things I need some help for.

For now, my main question is when do you determine Nido's stats? I've come to have a look at lv 5/6 and level 8 of course. Recently I'm looking at 10 and 12 as well, and special later? At 23? At which level up do you know Nido's stats?

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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by Gamma » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:50 pm

It mainly depends on your stats: sometimes you will already know your HP, Attack and Speed by lv9. It is usually a good approach to determine your HP, Attack and Speed at first. As you don't need to know your exact Defense and Special in the early game, it's totally fine to wait for lv23, when you should already know your HP and therefore can conclude Defense and Special (unless Spec. is 1/3 DV). You should know your stats at lv23 (apart from the aforementioned exception).

As for looking at stats, looking at 5/6 and 8 stats is useful for deciding on whether your Nido is worth to continue the run. If you can get a lot of information from one level (e.g. narrow down both speed and attack), you should look at it, more than often one level plus extra levels to know the HP DV (where you don't even have to check the stats) is enough to determine the DVs.

exit1337
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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by exit1337 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:00 am

Thanks for the reply. As of now, it seems I can only narrow down the DV ranges, whereas you seem to know your DVs pretty fast and exactly. Maybe I am using an inaccurate DV calculator?
I make a hypothetical example (leaving out the HP, I determine the range on the shorts guy fight)

Nido level 6
ATK 12 (DV 2-9)
DEF 10 (DV 2-9)
SPD 11 (DV 0-8)
SPC 10 (DV 2-9)


This Nido on level 8:
ATK 15 (DV now 8-10)
DEF 12 (DV 4-9)
SPD 13 (DV 0-6)
SPC 12 (DV 4-9)


On level 10:
ATK 18 (still 8-10)
DEF 15 (now 5-9)
SPD 16 (0-4)
SPC 14 (5-9)


level 12:
ATK 21 (8-9)
DEF 17 (6-9)
SPD 18 (0-4)
SPC 18 (6-9)

Apart from the fact that this Nido sucks, I couldn't specify the exact DVs, I could only narrow down the ranges as you can see.
The calculator I'm using might not be accurate, especially for Nidoking on 23. (It says "Invalid stat. Check the range" when I'm the assigning the actual Nidoking stats on lv 23.)
Do I need to see more level ups then?
I suppose narrowing the DVs down like that should be enough to know your strategy right?

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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by RXFADEZ » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:46 pm

Use the red helper. Can be downloaded at http://twitch.tv/dailyleaf/

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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by exit1337 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:22 pm

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread, my bad SwiftRage

Thanks for the help, though! I can determine the stats easier now.
Is there a way to decrease the sound volume in Gambatte? Whenever I open Pokemon Red, the sound is really loud and it also disturbes streaming. Or should I better use another emulator?

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Re: Still at it - Some more questions

Post by Decon082 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:32 pm

exit1337 wrote:Edit: Posted in the wrong thread, my bad SwiftRage

Thanks for the help, though! I can determine the stats easier now.
Is there a way to decrease the sound volume in Gambatte? Whenever I open Pokemon Red, the sound is really loud and it also disturbes streaming. Or should I better use another emulator?
i just have to go into my volume mixer and put gambatte on literally 1 or 2 volume otherwise it's way too loud and breaks my ears
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