Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

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entrpntr
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Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

Post by entrpntr » Sat May 14, 2016 7:13 pm

Just formally requesting a couple of small changes to the GSC rulesets on speedrun.com that have been informally discussed in the past.

First, the glitchless rules pages should have a note that the in-game timer is running during the post-Red credits. This is not obvious or commonly known, and there have been at least a couple runners now who lost time sitting at the credits due to not knowing. Something like this could be used in the wording:
* Timing is by the in-game timer, as it shows either on the trainer card or on the save screen after beating Red and going through the second set of credits. NOTE: The in-game timer is running during the credits after Red, so holding B to fast forward through these credits is necessary to avoid losing significant time.
Second, for the glitched categories, nothing specifically says that you can't start with a previous save file. I'm not sure if there is any way to exploit it, but others have mentioned that you theoretically could use box code that jumps to old data from a previous save file. So something like the Gen 1 glitched categories that states "Having a save file present on the cart/emulator when you start the run is not allowed" with the reasoning behind the rule should probably be added.

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Amoeba
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Re: Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

Post by Amoeba » Sun May 15, 2016 10:19 am

Second one makes a lot of sense, but that first one is irrelevant. Its worth putting that into routes/notes as its a big timesave, but its not a requirement of the speedrun or a rule, so doesn't really have any place in the rules, imo.
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entrpntr
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Re: Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

Post by entrpntr » Sun May 15, 2016 5:38 pm

In general, I agree that we don't need to add notes that aren't exactly rules to the pages. However, it is a requirement that timing is measured by the in-game timer, so this isn't totally irrelevant. It's much less transparent when the timer is running for runs that use in-game time than for real time, so there's certainly an argument for putting some specifics of the in-game timer on the rules page.

I think this case is exceptional enough to add a brief note. The first set of credits does not affect in-game time, so it's pretty natural to assume it wouldn't be running during the second set. Also, unlike other IGT trivialities, this one piece of knowledge has an impact of 1-2 minutes on the in-game timer (i.e. someone's time will automatically be worse by sitting through the second set of credits).

There are already 3 sub-3:30 runs (2 Crystal, 1 Gold) I'm aware of that sat through the second set of credits, so this does have a real impact. Adding one sentence to the SRC rules page instead of relegating the knowledge to notes/routes/word of mouth strikes me as a reasonable way to prevent legitimate gripes in the future.

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

Post by luckytyphlosion » Sun May 15, 2016 8:58 pm

For glitched categories, save data must be cleared before New Game so that Save Data is at a constant state. Currently, Gold/Silver Any% and the future meme category Gold 251 uses some sort of TID manip, which needs cleared save data so it isn't that much of an issue.

This is a bigger problem for Crystal Any% (and potentially Gold 251), as it might be possible to use box save corruption to use Pokémon data from a previous save file.

Regardless, the rule should definitely be put in place to avoid any sneaky cheaters although it not being in place isn't a pressing matter as very little people have the knowledge to abuse previous save data, so we won't be seeing cheated runs in anytime soon. (also the fact that not many people submit cheated runs in the first place, or at least for PSR)
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entrpntr
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Re: Minor changes to Gen 2 rules on SRC

Post by entrpntr » Sun May 15, 2016 9:53 pm

luckytyphlosion wrote:Regardless, the rule should definitely be put in place to avoid any sneaky cheaters although it not being in place isn't a pressing matter as very little people have the knowledge to abuse previous save data, so we won't be seeing cheated runs in anytime soon. (also the fact that not many people submit cheated runs in the first place, or at least for PSR)
Yeah, these aren't pressing matters at all. They've both been casually discussed in the past couple of months, but one of the Crystal runs I mentioned happened within the past couple weeks, so I figured now was as good a time as any to post them to the forums.
luckytyphlosion wrote:For glitched categories, save data must be cleared before New Game so that Save Data is at a constant state. Currently, Gold/Silver Any% and the future meme category Gold 251 uses some sort of TID manip, which needs cleared save data so it isn't that much of an issue.
TID manip actually works the same way with a previous save file (at least on console); the TIDs are offset by a few frames from normal and it appeared to be a bit less consistent from a moderate amount of testing, but the TID manip and previous save file definitely aren't mutually exclusive in their use. Thus, Gold/Silver Any% aren't exempt from the issue (to the extent this is an "issue").

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