What's allowed in No Major Glitches

Discuss policy guidelines for the community and whether something needs to be changed or not.
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ExtraTricky
Bug Catcher
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:39 am

What's allowed in No Major Glitches

Post by ExtraTricky » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:14 pm

We now have a category that is explicitly not banning all glitches, and there are many things in R/B that could be considered glitches but not major glitches. I would like to start a discussion about whether these techniques should be allowed in NMG. After some initial discussion in discord, here is a list of techniques/tricks that might make sense to be allowed.

Keep in mind, this list is just a starting point for discussion. I fully expect some (if not most) of these techniques to be banned, and a couple seem like they should be allowed in glitchless as well. Additionally, many of these techniques don't appear to save time for Any% NMG, but there's obviously no way for us to have exhaustively checked all routing possibilities, so it still makes sense to determine whether they are allowed.

Bolded text indicates a reason that a technique is currently banned in glitchless.

Commonly known
  • Cinnabar / other coasts (without old man)
  • Fly away from trainers (first phase of trainer fly)
  • Delete snorlax (effect of final phase of trainer fly, requires the encounter)
  • Experience underflow (Requires some method of getting level 1 pokemon)
Less commonly known
  • Fish indoors (Cerulean gym has a super rod table)
  • Surf/fish on the lower tile of a statue (treated as water)
  • Evolutionary stone bypass
  • Cycling road without bicycle
  • Deposit all living pokemon
  • Invisible PC in Celadon Hotel
  • Buy drinks you can't afford from Vending Machines (you can buy them if you have more than 200, money gets set to 0 if you have less than their price)
Techniques requiring Save+Quit
  • Brock Skip
  • Escape Safari Zone
  • Walk through walls via escaping safari zone
  • S+Q to avoid wipe after depositing all pokemon
  • Surfing down instead of onto water tile (e.g. can get into SS Anne, go back to Agatha)
  • Clone pokemon with PC (requires save corruption)
  • Starting with IT/other pokemon (requires save corruption)

ExtraTricky
Bug Catcher
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:39 am

Re: What's allowed in No Major Glitches

Post by ExtraTricky » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:28 pm

To get discussion started, here are my initial thoughts on classification:

Techniques I would expect to be allowed in glitchless:
  • Deposit all living pokemon
  • Invisible PC in Celadon Hotel
  • Buy drinks you can't afford from vending machines
Techniques I would expect to be allowed in NMG:
  • Cinnabar / other coasts (without old man)
  • Fish indoors
  • Surf/fish on lower tile of a statue
  • Evolutionary stone bypass
  • Cycling road without bicycle
Techniques I would expect to be allowed in NMG if S+Q is allowed:
  • Escape Safari Zone
  • S+Q to avoid wipe after depositing all live pokemon
  • Surfing down instead of onto water tile
Techniques I would expect to be banned in NMG:
  • Trainer fly
  • Experience underflow
  • Walk through walls (any method)
  • Any save corruption

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Decon082
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Re: What's allowed in No Major Glitches

Post by Decon082 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:31 pm

Opinions below.

What I think definitely should be banned:
- Ban all T-Fly and effects.
- Ban experience underflow since item underflow is banned, even though it's impossible to obtain as of now with allowed rules.
- Ban WTW. Normal Safari escape is still okay.
- Ban anything that requires resets during saving (cloning and SC).

Unsure on:
- Evolving without stones
- Cinnabar coast surfing
- Brock skip

Everything else on the list probably can be allowed, mainly because I don't see any of them being game-breaking or useful in any way. Brock skip is kinda similar to IT in the nature of its possible timesave but would require some strange route like Charmander --> Clefable --> Nidorino to be viable. Depositing all living Pokemon could be useful, but I don't think it's a glitch because of how Gen 1 PC mechanics work.

Of course if we decide to allow anything in the S+Q category then runs would have to be RTA. Other than Brock skip they all seem fairly unimportant in routing possible timesaves, but to prevent the category from becoming RTA then maybe we should just go ahead and ban any glitch that requires S+Q. Nothing wrong with RTA though, since so far we only have a small amount of runs we would have to re-time in comparison to the entire Glitchless leaderboards.
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entrpntr
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Re: What's allowed in No Major Glitches

Post by entrpntr » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:29 am

I'm definitely in the werster school of thought on glitches; the primary factor is the perceptible impact on the gameplay vs a casual playthrough.

Some criteria that would push a glitch into the 'major' categorization for me:
  • Anything that allows core content to be skipped (guess this would be 8 gyms + Elite 4 + Champion, other story skips are fine, as is general sequence-breaking)
  • Any out of bounds or walking through tiles that should impede the character
  • Most forms of abuse involving altering game memory in unorthodox ways if it can produce sufficiently jarring effects (this would probably include S&Q things like Brock skip and Safari Zone escape)
  • Anything causing major corruption of the screen or audio (probably encapsulated under other criteria, but certainly is a factor in determining how glitched something is)
Most other abuses of game mechanics really are things we've decided either aren't glitches (Poké Doll) or are minor glitches (Instant Text, apparently). This was kind of a hasty brainstorming on my part, so I may not have codified things precisely, but I think it's close to the general framework I'd use for classifying whether a glitch is major.

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