More love to the Japanese versions

Discuss policy guidelines for the community and whether something needs to be changed or not.
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Luckless
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Luckless » Wed May 21, 2014 6:05 pm

Chuckolator wrote:but everyone accepted that it was the true WR.
I personally didn't accept it as the true WR, just saying.
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GarfieldTheLightning
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by GarfieldTheLightning » Wed May 21, 2014 11:03 pm

Chuckolator wrote:Also, just a random thought. imax never released his vod of his 4:00 in XY until after mike beat it, but everyone accepted that it was the true WR. Why is that okay, but taking the word of Japanese runners who didn't save their videos is not?
There had been a link to iMAX's 4:00 on the X/Y times page since March 21st...
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Chuckolator » Thu May 22, 2014 1:34 am

GarfieldTheLightning wrote:
Chuckolator wrote:Also, just a random thought. imax never released his vod of his 4:00 in XY until after mike beat it, but everyone accepted that it was the true WR. Why is that okay, but taking the word of Japanese runners who didn't save their videos is not?
There had been a link to iMAX's 4:00 on the X/Y times page since March 21st...
Now that is very strange, because I must have looked for it and not found it at one point before, and I've been telling people there was no video for a month and nobody had ever corrected me. I can't go back in time and check it, but regardless that isn't an argument for this topic anyway, so forget I ever said that. Anyone have something to say about this?
Chuckolator wrote:So what's gonna happen when videos of Japanese runs start surfacing? I would just list them under the english times in their own category, with their own timing standards, the same way the FF wiki does.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Cooltrainermichael » Thu May 22, 2014 2:32 am

Chuckolator wrote:So what's gonna happen when videos of Japanese runs start surfacing? I would just list them under the english times in their own category, with their own timing standards, the same way the FF wiki does.
As stated earlier in the conversation, all times and rulings can be compiled here: http://wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index. ... aderboards

However, since the conversation started, no one has really stepped up with building up from this project, so it seems to be in an awkward standstill besides Allie translating the J community's rulings. As a start, probably updating the sections in this user page as well as transferring times with videos (Yes, Allie does have a video of her 2:04 J RTA run) to this section is sufficient.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Viskiv » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:24 am

I am not really a huge fan of leaderboards for JP times. For those who are capable of playing in English, choosing to play in Japanese splits the competition for no real reason. If you want to play in Japanese, more power to you, but it doesn't need a leaderboard in the English community. For those Japanese runners who don't speak English - they are part of a separate community. It seems fairly pointless to try and host the leaderboards of another community that is completely separate, has incomparable times, different rules, and that is of negligible size. Who actually benefits from having leaderboards for these times in the Western community? The Japanese runners who aren't here? Or the one random English-speaking Japanese runner who has the only time for a particular JP game... which doesn't need a leaderboard.

If the argument is that that one single time should have its own leaderboard because it could possibly promote more English players playing Japanese, I am even more strongly opposed to that. There is no gameplay difference between English and Japanese, merely a completely arbitrary time gain irrelevant to skill and that doesn't change anything for running the game (disregarding fringe cases like Sapphire with different enemy natures and an extra mandatory battle in JP). Given that is the case, there is very, very little reason to actively promote splitting the competitive community between two different categories that are functionally the exact same. If ever we were to promote English runners running Japanese it would really need to be if Japanese were the standard and everybody was expected to run on it, which is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

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theoblivinator
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by theoblivinator » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:28 am

I actually have a Japanese version of Crystal cartridge that I've played through a little bit on my GBA. I think it would be fun and interesting to try and do a full game run on it sometime.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Zewing » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:09 pm

I've recently purchased JP versions of Colosseum and XD. I'm under the impression that this is "Pokemon Speed Runs," not "English only Pokemon Speed Runs." As such, if there is a rising interest in runners going to the JP version, then I feel that we should at least accommodate this.

Though, to keep thing organized, it'd be a good idea to link on the front page about the Japanese edition to this site. Common sense tells us that JP vs. EN will never occur as different language in an rpg = different category (unless you're paper mario for some reason....)

Many of us have reasons for going to the JP version. People (like Caracarn) do it for the sheer competitiveness. Others have their own reasons that shouldn't be brought into question. Just my opinion.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Viskiv » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:30 pm

Many of us have reasons for going to the JP version. People (like Caracarn) do it for the sheer competitiveness. Others have their own reasons that shouldn't be brought into question. Just my opinion.
Caracarn is not a Pokemon runner. If you play in Japanese on a Pokemon game, you are being anti-competitive. There is not a large enough community for any game other than R/B to have actual competition for two literally identical gameplay categories. As I've said in my previous post, you're more than welcome to run Japanese on your own time and I won't care about why at all, but the moment you push for leaderboards and encourage splitting the competition in half among the rest of the community, I'm very much going to question what your reason is, because without a legitimately good reason you will only hurt the community and competition by doing it.

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xxxAceBlade
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by xxxAceBlade » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:40 pm

I don't think it would hurt the community at all to make seperate JP leaderboards. If anything, it'd get more runners involved. While the Japanese community might not be huge, there might be more interest generated if they can post times. I know I'd love to try running different languages for the games. Maybe not japanese cuz I can't even tell what moves are what lol. Still, does it really hurt anything to make another leaderboard?
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by G_heinz » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:29 am

never really looked at this thread before.

i've always found it sort of strange why other communities encourage running on foreign-language copies for the sake of saving time, yet the pokemon community doesn't just discourage this, but seems to vehemently oppose it.

i guess it makes a degree of sense, given that menuing and item-management are so crucial for these runs, but even if we don't openly encourage people to try their hand at japanese versions, i see no reason why we should openly discourage it. i would really only require translation guides for each game, which i would be more than willing to write up. this is an obstacle that runners of other games have to deal with and is in no way undoable for any runner who would already put in the time required to learn the game in the first place.

however, if it has to do with the historic divide between the western and japanese pkmn speedrunning communities based on our timing preferences (IGT vs. RTA), then that is another matter entirely. it is somewhat disappointing that our respective communities are so disjointed, though.

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xxxAceBlade
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by xxxAceBlade » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:40 am

I know nothing of whether or not it's faster because of text or whatever. I wouldn't mind running japanese if like heinz mentioned, we could have a translation guide. I just need to know which weirdly shaped symbol is my potions and I'm good OpieOP

Also, if the Japanese runners wanted it for their own leaderboards, I'd happily run rta. I have no issues with IGT or RTA, it's never been a preference of mine. I just did what was listed on the catagory rules.
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Zewing
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Zewing » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:40 am

I've made it up to Mt. Battle in JP Colosseum with no issues since I already know English colosseum. For the most part, the games are exactly the same with language accommodating the region. However, some games have differences (I think gen 1?), so a strict "use english stuff for JP stuff" won't always be correct.

Aside from this, wouldn't it also be a good idea to allow PAL regions to use their own language for the console games? I'm told XD in PAL has a minor difference w/ Teddiursa's evolution level.

As great as it is to be competitive, I think it'd also be cool to allow competition based on what runners are most comfortable with, which could be German, JP, English, Espanol, etc. Maybe with new leaderboard we could filter Languages like this, but only keep English as the main default?
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Cooltrainermichael » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:07 am

This was posted much earlier, but Dawtm's user page has made a test board for Japanese times here: http://wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index. ... aderboards

If people wanted to start updating tables/rulings/etc. here, feel free. No one is going to blast you for simply compiling data on a test board. The top of the test board should clarify things. There are no promises that this will be moved to the new leaderboards, but more importantly, it needs to be filled out. Take action.
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