More love to the Japanese versions

Discuss policy guidelines for the community and whether something needs to be changed or not.
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Dawtm
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More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:07 am

I feel like the main wiki should list some of the Japanese versions of the games. It might make more people run them and show that they actually exist. Plus i dont feel like navigating NicoNico because it doesn't link to the videos and it makes me cri
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by M.BisonFuté » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:22 am

Isn't MevRNG the only one running on a japanese version of FireRed?

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Dawtm
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:14 am

M.BisonFuté wrote:Isn't MevRNG the only one running on a japanese version of FireRed?
I swear theres another runner who does but its probably my mind playing tricks on me. I know the red/blue and ruby/sapphire have a lot of runners though
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Chuckolator » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:29 am

Yeah, this would be nice if it could happen. the FF wiki (though it's only a list of times) lists both NA and JP times, despite their version differences and different timing methods. Why not this site too?

the fact that nico is crap for vods is an issue, though. You can search ポケモン RTA to find the communities for runners who have streamed recently, I guess, or if that's not good enough I guess you could ask the X/Y runner who speaks english (twitter) to point you to leaderboards (if they exist) or if they don't exist, to just more runners to follow so you can find their pbs? That's all I can think of.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:58 am

Chuckolator wrote:Yeah, this would be nice if it could happen. the FF wiki (though it's only a list of times) lists both NA and JP times, despite their version differences and different timing methods. Why not this site too?

the fact that nico is crap for vods is an issue, though. You can search ポケモン RTA to find the communities for runners who have streamed recently, I guess, or if that's not good enough I guess you could ask the X/Y runner who speaks english (twitter) to point you to leaderboards (if they exist) or if they don't exist, to just more runners to follow so you can find their pbs? That's all I can think of.

Thanks! ill try and contact him if I can. I know the leaderboards are here http://www40.atwiki.jp/niconamarta/pages/33.html but they don't have a link to the vods so Its kind of hard to track the runs sadly. Some of them dont even have vods, just the time which is another issue I can see.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by zackcat » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:07 am

As most people know, the Japanese communities are a lot more lax on the whole thing. So it will be hard unless you can find a in-between who knows a bunch.
Last edited by zackcat on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Allie
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Allie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:25 pm

Hi hi I'm glad this is being brought up!

I agree with Chuckolator. I've been running Japanese Red for a while, and to be totally honest, I've felt somewhat segregated from the community because of it; I say this both because I am the only one running it, and because it receives no recognition on the wiki. It would really mean a lot to me personally if times for Japanese runs were recorded on the wiki. They would not be compared to the English times; they would be in a separate table. Several other communities already do this, and I see no reason why we can't follow suit.

P.S.: I'd be more than happy to volunteer to dig around Nico and find as many existing vods as I can.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 pm

Allie wrote:Hi hi I'm glad this is being brought up!

I agree with Chuckolator. I've been running Japanese Red for a while, and to be totally honest, I've felt somewhat segregated from the community because of it; I say this both because I am the only one running it, and because it receives no recognition on the wiki. It would really mean a lot to me personally if times for Japanese runs were recorded on the wiki. They would not be compared to the English times; they would be in a separate table. Several other communities already do this, and I see no reason why we can't follow suit.

P.S.: I'd be more than happy to volunteer to dig around Nico and find as many existing vods as I can.
Yea, I can understand feeling a bit separated if its not recognized on the wiki especially since it doesnt say its English speedruns only. Finding the vods would be a great help! Sadly my chrome doesnt translate languages anymore so I dont think I could help out with that BibleThump Ill help edit the pages though to include the times, rules, ect if needed though.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Shenanagans » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:44 pm

I feel the reason it lacks competition is due to lack of representation.

I would certainly agree to adding it to the wiki page, but the issue is does anybody run Japanese that is currently involved in the English community (besides you Allie Kappa )? Because If we add japanese runners times to the page will they claim their WR's are real WR because we use a "pokedoll glitch". Combining the 2 communities might be a struggle.

On the other side I think jap gold/silver glitched would be an amazing category. Forces the super fun funky colors route Kreygasm
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:13 pm

Shenanagans wrote:I feel the reason it lacks competition is due to lack of representation.

I would certainly agree to adding it to the wiki page, but the issue is does anybody run Japanese that is currently involved in the English community (besides you Allie Kappa )? Because If we add japanese runners times to the page will they claim their WR's are real WR because we use a "pokedoll glitch". Combining the 2 communities might be a struggle.

On the other side I think jap gold/silver glitched would be an amazing category. Forces the super fun funky colors route Kreygasm
I agree with the little competition, hopefully once its all up and running more Japanese runners pop up. That could happen, but if it's clearly noted that they're different categories (hopefully) it'll solve that issue if it comes up. J gold/silver speedruns when shenan
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:46 am

Good news! I constantly badgered asked ctm and Whallah its made http://wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index. ... aderboards feel free to look for the vods, upload the rules and what not here!
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Cooltrainermichael » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:52 am

Dawtm wrote:Good news! I constantly badgered asked ctm and Whallah its made http://wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index. ... aderboards feel free to look for the vods, upload the rules and what not here!
I hope this is sufficient for now. I made it a user page in case there is a big outcry from random people. Will be interesting to see how it works out, and if it encourages runners to try it, we may consider moving it out of a user page. That is down the road though lol
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Chuckolator » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:06 am

Well, someone's doing Black 2 right now if anyone's interested: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv177323137

Should I just start posting communities of all the people I know run the games?

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Cooltrainermichael » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:17 am

Chuckolator wrote:Well, someone's doing Black 2 right now if anyone's interested: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv177323137

Should I just start posting communities of all the people I know run the games?
I think what would be more effective is to just link the highlight to their recorded run, and have it posted on the leaderboards. The main thing is that the main site for Japanese leaderboards is very difficult to navigate, so if you are able to find a recording with a time that follows the rules, please post it on leaderboards.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Chuckolator » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:10 am

Cooltrainermichael wrote:
Chuckolator wrote:Well, someone's doing Black 2 right now if anyone's interested: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv177323137

Should I just start posting communities of all the people I know run the games?
I think what would be more effective is to just link the highlight to their recorded run, and have it posted on the leaderboards. The main thing is that the main site for Japanese leaderboards is very difficult to navigate, so if you are able to find a recording with a time that follows the rules, please post it on leaderboards.
nico's vod system is weird and only shows it to premium members, or something like that. Why not just post times without videos if they're accepted by the JP community? You're probably not going to get any times otherwise.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:59 am

Chuckolator wrote:
Cooltrainermichael wrote:
Chuckolator wrote:Well, someone's doing Black 2 right now if anyone's interested: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv177323137

Should I just start posting communities of all the people I know run the games?
I think what would be more effective is to just link the highlight to their recorded run, and have it posted on the leaderboards. The main thing is that the main site for Japanese leaderboards is very difficult to navigate, so if you are able to find a recording with a time that follows the rules, please post it on leaderboards.
nico's vod system is weird and only shows it to premium members, or something like that. Why not just post times without videos if they're accepted by the JP community? You're probably not going to get any times otherwise.
If you have to be premium to view it its probably best just to list the time and not the video. Though an option could be to link the video and state that its premium only just to prove it exists.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Cooltrainermichael » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:25 am

It will be very difficult to take a time seriously without the video. If the purpose is more of a benchmark, I guess that's fine, but in general, we want times on the wiki to have a video associated with it. With only times and no videos, the Japanese leaderboards will most likely just stay on the user page.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Allie » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:21 pm

In response to not having much competition from English runners: I would be glad to write up some translations / guides to help non-Japanese speakers break into the Japanese games.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by MEvRNG » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:55 pm

I bought FireRed JP the other day so I'll be doing runs of that next month and I'll probably do one run of Green Glitchless (even though I'm sure it's less optimal that Red) just cause I bought the cart for ESA to do glitched as a donation incentive and I wanna get my money's worth.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:00 pm

Cooltrainermichael wrote:It will be very difficult to take a time seriously without the video. If the purpose is more of a benchmark, I guess that's fine, but in general, we want times on the wiki to have a video associated with it. With only times and no videos, the Japanese leaderboards will most likely just stay on the user page.
That should be fine, if the Japanese games get more rule-set times would it be moved to the front page?
Allie wrote:In response to not having much competition from English runners: I would be glad to write up some translations / guides to help non-Japanese speakers break into the Japanese games.
That would be great, Im sure the reason some people dont run Japanese games is because the effort to learn whats what so any help in that would be gucci.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by MEvRNG » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:25 pm

So how should Japanese runs be ranked? RTA or IGT?

I'll time using whatever the standard is for Japanese speed runners (if someone can fill me in on what that actually is) but I'd prefer runs to be ranked by IGT, obviously with no S+Qs allowed. I don't know if that conflicts with the Japanese standard though.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Dawtm » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:26 pm

MEvRNG wrote:So how should Japanese runs be ranked? RTA or IGT?

I'll time using whatever the standard is for Japanese speed runners (if someone can fill me in on what that actually is) but I'd prefer runs to be ranked by IGT, obviously with no S+Qs allowed. I don't know if that conflicts with the Japanese standard though.
RTA is the current timing method for Japanese games. There should be certain rule sets for them on the NicoNico but idk how to find them
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by MEvRNG » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:42 pm

Dawtm wrote: RTA is the current timing method for Japanese games. There should be certain rule sets for them on the NicoNico but idk how to find them

Yeah I figured as much but I don't know what the cut offs are (I think it's new game to the end of the credits). I wont use S+Qs anyway, the only place I think that'd be useful anyway is trashcans but it takes the "fun" away and I wouldn't want to DQ a run from any future rankings just cause of one instance of trolly RNG.
Allie wrote: I would be glad to write up some translations / guides to help non-Japanese speakers
Personally, I like the challenge of not having a clue what's going on around me (it's like playing drunk but not actually vomiting at the end of it. #christmaseve). But yeah... there is one translation that has always intrigued me.
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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Allie » Mon May 05, 2014 1:23 am

Dawtm wrote:
MEvRNG wrote:So how should Japanese runs be ranked? RTA or IGT?

I'll time using whatever the standard is for Japanese speed runners (if someone can fill me in on what that actually is) but I'd prefer runs to be ranked by IGT, obviously with no S+Qs allowed. I don't know if that conflicts with the Japanese standard though.
RTA is the current timing method for Japanese games. There should be certain rule sets for them on the NicoNico but idk how to find them
The rules are at the top of the leaderboard pages! I'll translate them.

Red/Blue/Green:

Code: Select all

<基本ルール>
・「さいしょからはじめる」を選択した瞬間から計測開始。「THE END」で計測終了。
・ピッピ人形でのガラガラ撃破禁止
・バグ技禁止(屋内の「あなをほる」と「あなぬけのひも」は可)
・通信はゲーム内NPCのみ可 

<Standard Rules>
・Timing begins at 「さいしょからはじめる」 (new game), and ends when「THE END」 is on the screen.
・Skipping Marowak with the Poke Doll is not allowed.
・Glitches are banned (with the exception of using Dig/Escape Rope indoors).
・Only in-game trades with NPCs are allowed.
Gold/Silver/Crystal and Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald:

Code: Select all

<基本ルール>
・「さいしょからはじめる」を選択した瞬間から計測開始。レッド戦後「THE END」で計測終了。
・バグ技&裏技は使用禁止
・通信交換はゲーム内NPCのみ可 

<Standard Rules>
・Timing begins at 「さいしょからはじめる」 (new game), and ends when「THE END」 is on the screen.
・Glitches and cheats are banned.
・Only in-game trades with NPCs are allowed.
For Black/White, they say that trading outside in-game trades is banned, and then they list three different "categories", each timed differently. One is from power on to "THE END", one is from game start (not new game, but when the game is selected from the main DS menu) to "THE END", and the last is in-game time, with save/quit banned. It looks like they didn't try to enforce any specific timing for these games, but they do say at the very top of the page "usually RTA".

Those are all of the main series games that they have rules/leaderboards for. There are also pages for TCG and Snap; I can translate those if anyone wants me to.

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Re: More love to the Japanese versions

Post by Chuckolator » Wed May 21, 2014 6:02 am

So what's gonna happen when videos of Japanese runs start surfacing? I would just list them under the english times in their own category, with their own timing standards, the same way the FF wiki does.

Also, just a random thought. imax never released his vod of his 4:00 in XY until after mike beat it, but everyone accepted that it was the true WR. Why is that okay, but taking the word of Japanese runners who didn't save their videos is not?

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