Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless

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SurrealGuy
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Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless

Post by SurrealGuy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:53 pm

Hey there,
Trebien (twitch.tv/trebien) and me (twitch.tv/SurrealGuy) are going to do our next 150 glitchless run on the next Friday (Nov 28th) starting at around 6AM EST hosted on my channel. Kreygasm
We will catch all 150 Pokemon without the use of any glitches, so there's like an hour of trading involved in a run that will hopefully be completed in around 8 hours (last PB/"WR" was 9:50:xx hours).
We'll try to keep most of our talking in english and we do have a better microphone this time, so the sound will be a lot better than the last 2 times.
As buying 2 Gamecubes and importing an English version of Red and Blue is quite expensive, we have to stick to crappy emulators again. However we don't use BGB this time, because it kept glitching up our pokemon after trading and we dont want to reset hours into the run, because we ended up again with a Level 79 Wartortle with Cooltrainer move (Yes, this kind of stuff really happened PJSalt ). Instead of that we found an older version of TGB Dual (5.x) which doesnt crash, so we'll use that. I dont know how much "faster" TGB runs in relation to other emulators, but we just want to finally do this run.

Long story short: Would be cool if someone checks in on Friday and spams some KevinTurtle KevinTurtle KevinTurtle s

See you then :ugeek:
SG
Last edited by SurrealGuy on Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by luckytyphlosion » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:34 pm

I remember there was a page somewhere that compares gb emus, and iirc tgb dual was a really bad emulator on the list. I think it was on tasvideos.org but I can't remember...

EDIT: You could also try http://kigb.emuunlim.com/
Jack-Flys are OpieOP.

"GO ASK SANQUI" - luckytyphlosion whenever someone asks about how something in Pokémon Red/Blue works. (this means you exarion Kappa)

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:24 am

Yeah i know, it's really crappy (http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/ ... Tests.html)

It think we tested KiGB, but i didnt work for us iirc. We might try that one out again, maybe we overlooked something.
But for this time we'll stay with TGB as it just works and we want to see what time is roughly possible with all the new route improvements. Thanks anyways :) Maybe we can use KiGB next time (or Gambatte if they implement a link function PogChamp )
Run starts in approx 1,5h btw ! Kreygasm

luckytyphlosion
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by luckytyphlosion » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:26 pm

Oh god, TGB looks so bad that you'd be better off using VBA.

Like, all those fails make me feel that there's probably some bug going unseen, but if it's just a test run I can see TGB Dual okay. (unless you get another CoolTrainer again Kappa)
Jack-Flys are OpieOP.

"GO ASK SANQUI" - luckytyphlosion whenever someone asks about how something in Pokémon Red/Blue works. (this means you exarion Kappa)

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:07 pm

VBA doesnt work for RedBlue FailFish PJSalt

Edit: Run is done and highlighted. http://www.twitch.tv/surrealguy/c/5585710
It saves 1:20h over the last record which was 9:50:xx.
This run was really good until SafariZone. It seems as if TGB handled the rng differently. In practice both of us were really consistent in getting the rare encounters with DSum Manip (practiced on Gambatte/BGB), but somehow the DSum was really awkward and felt strange and random. Luckily i got Tauros, Scyther and Kangha really fast, but Pinsir took like 38 minutes. I will investigate on that a bit more (maybe we were just tired and unable to DSum correctly).
On the other hand we had some really good luck and improvised some new strats for rare circumstances, which worked out fine. Also our Pokedexcounter crashed somewhere in the run, but we didnt want to restart it, because we were worried, that TGB might crash because of that (because TGB sucks as you may know).
We will definitely focus on getting console for the next one, so we dont have these stupid technical issues and finally get a "valid" world record. Next goal will be around 7:30 - 8:00h, as thats definitely possible with the current strats.
We might start on a pastebin for this category to make people interested in this and to work on more improvements (with other runners) for this category.

Sanqui
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by Sanqui » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:19 pm

Hey, do you guys have some saves of a bgb run before or after a glitched trade? Also, which version did you use? beware, the developer, would like to have a look at it and fix it.
I am the person who has ruined Gold Glitched forever and seconhandedly, Red NSC too
Ask me to make a dumb romhack for you!
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SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:06 pm

Hey Sanqui! We always used version 1.4.3.
I just now noticed that 1.5 got released a month ago, so we didn't try trading on that version yet.
Trebien will try some trading on that version today and make some savestates if any glitch occurs.

BGB is actually a really good emulator, but it just seems random if the trade works or not. In our 9:50 run all the trades up to like 9:20 worked just perfectly and then suddenly letters started to disappear (HITMONCHAN -> ITMONCHAN for example) and it just got more and more.

Sanqui
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by Sanqui » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:03 pm

beware says that if you're going to test with bgb 1.5 and try to reproduce the link problems, he'd need a savestate before the bad transfer happens. He'd like to know if the glitches are caused by a long runtime of bgb, or if they also happen if starting bgb over and continuing.

EDIT: Also, you said 1.5 - the latest version is 1.5.1, though you probably know that.
I am the person who has ruined Gold Glitched forever and seconhandedly, Red NSC too
Ask me to make a dumb romhack for you!
Image

Jul, a board.

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:11 pm

Just wanted to say, that me and Trebien are doing another run tomorrow. It will start around 4AM EST (sorry about that, but it works out for us germans).
We will use the route we used last time, so there werent many huge changes made in the route.
We'll be using BGB again this time. Didnt get any glitch trades in the last week, so we hope that it will also work tomorrow :)
The run will be hosted on my channel (twitch.tv/surrealguy)
So check in, if you want :)

beware
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by beware » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:20 am

hi, i'm the author of the bgb emulator. sanqui has posted for me before. i decided to create an account so i can post.

if you want to communicate privately (using PM) this is ok.

i watched some of that speedrun, and so far i have the following comments on what i will call "the 4:35 incident", referring to it happening 4 hours, 35 minutes into the video:

- you link when you're both in the pokemon center, and then try to use the cable club. this seems to go wrong sometimes. link before you go into the pokemon center. if you're not linked yet, both exit, link, and re-enter the pokemon center. now you can use the cable club.

- after you restarted bgb, to try to get link to work, the controller configs messed up. this makes me believe you run both instances from the same folder. for what you're doing, it's best to use two separate bgb folders, therefore each having their own config.

- there is a known bug in versions up to 1.5.1, which is fixed internally. if you're linked, emulation may be slowed down. a workaround is to set "reduce input latency", in the "misc" tab, to "off". this bug should not cause glitches/corrupt data, but you can try if this fixes it.

questions:
- have you had glitches trading when each side had only one pokemon?

- how long has bgb run for, when glitches happened? for example, shortly after (re) starting, or only after hours? and when using "continue" in the game's menu, or when continuing from a save state?

edit: clarifying versions that bug happens in.

Trebien
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by Trebien » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:37 pm

Hey, thanks for your advices! We'll try that soon.

I think we used the latest Version of BGB which was 1.5.1. I dont have many information about glitch trades on 1.5.1, because we only used it for our latest run and it happend there for the first time.
I've been testing a lot with a 1.4 Version and there I had troubles with trading after starting a new file on both Gameboys with only one Pokemon in each Players partie. This did not happen on 1.5.1. Also 1.4-trades caused glitched moves and Pokemon that crashed the Game. This aswell didnt happen on 1.51 yet. Now it seems like the chances for a glitched trade are higher after a long while of playing, but Im not sure about that.
This is what can happen after a glitchtrade:
HITMONCHAN-->ITMONCHAN
S--> ( These Pokemon without names sometimes crashed the game)
OT/BLUE--> OT/ LUE
OT/ RED--> OT/ACRED
VAPOREON--> VPOREON
Moves like: TM05, Cooltrainer moves

I hope this is helpful for you.

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:29 pm

We will do another 150 attempt tomorrow! The run will start at around 8:30AM EST.
No major route changes this time, but many more minor improvements and hopefully much better execution than the last times.
Let's hope that Tauros & friends stay in their balls; that we don't have issues with BGB and we can stay focused for about 8 hours DansGame

The run will be hosted on my channel again ( twitch.tv/surrealguy ) FrankerZ

Edit: The run died 4:30 hours into the run. Everything went fine, we were on a pretty good pace. But then the emulator decided to transform our Mewtwo into a L70 Voltorb with the same stats/moveset as Mewtwo. However Trebien didnt have the Mewtwo Pokedex entry. Catching the other one would have resulted in a time loss of not less than 30minutes.
We will get console for our next attempt. This was really frustrating... DansGame

2dos
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by 2dos » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:01 pm

If you are unable to get console for your next attempts, you should just switch back to TGB until the issue is resolved in a future BGB release. Rather have inaccurate speed emulation rather than emulation that completely breaks the game. It's really strange how the pokemon keeps changing.

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:31 pm

We want to do (and finish) another run tomorrow, starting at around 4:30AM EST(sorry about that).
2Dos, I was thinking about using TGB again, but we really really don't want to miss out on DSum as thats really important for the run.
Buying 2 Gamecubes, 2Capture Card, 2 GB Players and Red+Blue in English is also out of question, as we dont want to spend at least 200€ for that, just to have a legit run.

We are the only ones who "seriously" run this. Our plan is to just make a savestate before each significant trade, so in case anything gets messed up by BGB, we pause the timer after the trade and reload the savestate. I know that doesnt make the run legit (except we dont need to load a savestate), but we really want to see what time our route/this category is capable of. We don't want to be burnt on this game. It is really depressing to see a run on a good pace die after 4.5 hours of playing just because the tech says no. There's nothing we can do about that (at least we couldnt find anything that could cause those glitch trades from happening). PJSalt

We'll see how that will turn out, (but i won't rule out using TGB again for future runs).

Edit: The run will be hosted on my channel again ( twitch.tv/surrealguy ) FrankerZ

2dos
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by 2dos » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:05 pm

Next time you do a run and it happens, keep the save files and email the developer the save files, as it doesn't look like he checks the PSR forums often.

Use the instructions at the bottom of this page to email the guy: http://bgb.bircd.org/

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:00 am

I think Trebien already did that a while ago (or he sent those to Sanqui who wanted to send them to Beware).

Anyways we finished a run in 8:04:05 and we didnt need to use savestates! FrankerZ (we did savestates but we didnt need to load them)
Although we stopped the timer twice: Once because I ended up with a L0 Goldeen and i wasnt sure if depositing it would softlock my game (that happens sometimes, so we paused, i tried if that worked and we continued). And we paused once because my controller lost focus and i had to reconfigure it (turned out it didnt take that long and wasn't really necessary to pause for that).
After the run we did a battle for fun with the pokemon we had in our team and BGB did some crazy stuff! Maybe the answer to the problems is somewhere hidden there (the battle happens at the end of Part3, directly after we get the diploma).

The first hour was executed badly from both of us (i also had a bad Nido), we can save about 4-5minutes there. I struggled with Moltres for about 11Minutes, because of being unlucky but mostly being stupid, also ran into a trainer directly after that). Otherwise we are pretty happy with this run. We decided that we will do SafariZone earlier in the next run(s).
Sub 8 will be sometime in Summer, we promise!! Kreygasm

Here's the run:
Part1: http://www.twitch.tv/surrealguy/c/6531257
Part2: http://www.twitch.tv/surrealguy/c/6531262
Part3: http://www.twitch.tv/surrealguy/c/6531271

beware
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by beware » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:05 pm

my plan atm is to make a version of bgb that can record and playback a "demo", and have you two do a run with it, at least including a glitch trade. then i want to see if playing back the demo will show the same glitch again. it's a long shot, but it's something i can try.

edit: this run would be in one single go (without reloading halfway)

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:12 am

Okay, we can do that :)
Just do a post here, once it is finished!

beware
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by beware » Tue May 12, 2015 4:58 am

i made the version. details in PM.

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by SurrealGuy » Tue May 12, 2015 12:19 pm

Alright, thanks beware :)
Me and Trebien will try to meet up sometime in the next 2 weeks and play for a while until a glitch trade occurs.

beware
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by beware » Tue May 12, 2015 3:08 pm

can you do the preparations and do a test in advance of that, so that you don't run into any surprises then?

as a test you can start a demo recording, do some button presses on both sides that you'll recognize, close the emulators, and then play back the demo, and watch that the emulators say they're "linked" in both cases.

beware
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless run on Friday

Post by beware » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:15 pm

i released bgb 1.5.2 which fixes the link glitches. http://bgb.bircd.org/

SurrealGuy
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Re: Red/Blue 150 co-op glitchless

Post by SurrealGuy » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:38 pm

Just wanted to say, that Trebien and I will be doing another attempt at this tomorrow starting at around 3AM EST (again, sorry for living in Germany Kappa ) on my channel: twitch.tv/surrealguy
updated FAQ: http://pastebin.com/i4uBNB72

The route changed quite a bit: We switched versions (Eevee reset will be done on Red and Dratini will be bought on that file), I beat the Elite 4 a total of 2 times and Trebien not even once (except he lets himself die to Lance and Rival), which will save time (don't know how much). A very good run (execution & rng) could maybe get a sub 7, but we will be happy with a sub 7:30h run. Let us pray to the almighty RNGesus, Tauros, Kangha & friends !

Also big shoutouts and thanks to beware for fixing the link glitches! They should no longer occur now! :)

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